Any Rebel Yell RL out there besides mine?

[beefyboy]

I have not researched mutations of tomatoes or other possibilities for this. Just never had a reason or desire.

[AlittleSalt]

Originally Posted by beefyboy

I have not researched mutations of tomatoes or other possibilities for this. Just never had a reason or desire.

(Just my opinion and thoughts)

A cross or mutation can happen. Sometimes, it's very obvious - when your F1 Brandy Boy plant is producing loads of cherry tomatoes. Been there.

beefyboy, it's worth learning if you have the time and interest.

I have a lot of interest in accidental crosses - (which probably makes me a little strange) So many of the accidental crosses actually tasted a lot better than what they were supposed to be. They say a mutt dog is better than true breed. There is actually a whole lot of thought behind that reasoning. A tomato plant that grows like a weed is kind of like that mutt dog. It has genetics in it to survive and flourish. Like local honey being more healthy for you.

My 2 cents - I first saw your post in the 2 cents section.

[beefyboy]

I like your opinion and thanks for the reply. I make the time and always have the interest with tomatoes. If you saw my yard, you would think I am crazy, 52 fruit trees later. lol
I grow most of my tomatoes outside in a commercial size hydro system with a strong 9 ft tall steel structure with cattle panels. I also grow in earth boxes, which is what the RY plants will go in for comparisons. I agree with the mutt dog theory, hence the performance of hybrids or just a special mango tree with two great parents, I have many of those. I do not think this is a stray seed, my gut feeling says no way. They are too similar in size but yet have different color and leaf type.
Yes local honey, since it is supposed to counter pollen allergies since grown in your area. Owning a health food store for a long time, you tend to get good at this talk. lol

[Ricky Shaw]

*A cross would show up in more than 1 seed.

Now three seasons ago for Marsha, and considering the large number of seeds that she'd send on a popular offering like Rebel Yell, you'd think we would of heard more about this. Stray seed is the odds on culprit here.

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by beefyboy

Not on my end! positively no strays! the other contributor to your seed may have but with the overwhelming size of these two plants would be hard to do. They are neck and neck and two- three times the size of any other plants. I just do not think a stray seed. If you could find out what the person was saving seed for in RL and distributing, that would help for sure. Hopefully not a long list!!
lol

I cannot remember who, name is not marked. 2 plants grown with exact feeding and watering can grow similar size regardless of being related. A mutation is extremely rare. Maybe it was a stray seed on the donor side, but we may never know. No way to know if they are donor or my own seeds either.

[beefyboy]

Seedlings all have a different related vigor associated to variety, I have seen it over and over again for the last 25 years growing varieties that always lead the pack when seedlings. Mutations have happened many times, it is nothing new and probably hundreds have occurred without ever being reported. Your all forgetting about the many generations of growers over the last 150 years or so who never thought twice about a mutation. I do have two seedlings from same batch of seeds and one is PL and one RL and that' where it starts for now, all else is an experiment.

[ginger2778]

I'm done.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by beefyboy

Seedlings all have a different related vigor associated to variety, I have seen it over and over again for the last 25 years growing varieties that always lead the pack when seedlings. Mutations have happened many times, it is nothing new and probably hundreds have occurred without ever being reported. Your all forgetting about the many generations of growers over the last 150 years or so who never thought twice about a mutation. I do have two seedlings from same batch of seeds and one is PL and one RL and that' where it starts for now, all else is an experiment.

You aren't the only one who has seen,from the same batch of saved seeds that one plant will be RL and another PL. I've seen it and here are two examples that will illustrate it

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/K...%27s_Breakfast

and the PL version

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/KBX

Not listed at Tania's site is the PL version of Indian Stripe which is stable and was found by Bill, here at Tville, a mutation from the RL.

It also depends on whether the mutation is in the seed DNA or as a somatic mutation which occurs in the DNA of a plant cell.

To illustrate that let's look at the original version which is the variety Casino

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Casino

And now the cherry from the above that was a somatic mutation.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Casino_Chips

I've been lucky to see several somatic mutations.

It's also important to know if a specific gene has alternative alleles.

(Your all forgetting about the many generations of growers over the last 150 years or so who never thought twice about a mutation. I do have two seedlings from same batch of seeds and one is PL and one RL and that' where it )

No, I'm not forgetting that mutations have always occurred, ever since the Spanish took back seeds from Mexico in I think it was 1588, to Europe,more specifcally Portugal and Spain, which were one country back then.

Long history here but if that hadn't happened we wouldn't have the huge numbers of tomato varieties we have today,whether OP's or F1 hybrids. Yes, the Spanish missionaries also brought seeds, specifically Solanum Pimpinellifolium,the currant species to the US southwest, and those got passed along the Gulf coast to FL, etc.

Some mutations are silent,in that they occur and can't be seen as a change in phenotype, and that's good to also know.

So I don't find it odd at all that from one batch of seeds you are getting an RL and a PL for the same variety.

Carolyn, and my observations from growing up on a truck farm many decades ago where we had many acres of tomatoes, also growing some F1 hybrids, but usually prefers heirloom ones as well as some outstanding ones that are being bred now who are not associated with large commercial places, and to date has grown around 4,000 plus varieties.

[ContainerTed]

Beefy Boy, I would like to see a picture of your two plants in order to evaluate your leaf types. Many of the renowned potato leaf varieties are displaying a serration that some are mistaking for Regular Leaf. "Serrated Potato Leaf" is finding a lot of acceptance from the prime breeders lately. So, show me your foliage, so that I might evaluate from the same standpoint you have.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

Beefy Boy, I would like to see a picture of your two plants in order to evaluate your leaf types. Many of the renowned potato leaf varieties are displaying a serration that some are mistaking for Regular Leaf. "Serrated Potato Leaf" is finding a lot of acceptance from the prime breeders lately. So, show me your foliage, so that I might evaluate from the same standpoint you have.

Good point Ted.

I just posted above you with a couple of different angles.

Carolyn, who is one who does not accept serious serrations on the leaf edge and still calling it PL. Remember when I referred to the 5 kinds of PL's in that German article with illustrations?

[beefyboy]

I will be glad to take good photo's and was planning on it later tonight. I do not know why certain members want to act stubborn and closed minded about this, I take this as an interesting thing, not a fight. Ted, I will get you some pics. They are not serrated at all, they are true RL, but Carolyn, yourself, and anyone else can voice opinions, I am here for the fun of it. all open minded people are welcome to post and give me your thoughts. I am open to all thoughts and find it fascinating. Again! if said member grew out seed of donor herself and they all came out PL and nobody else had anything but PL with all the other starts, then it is possible, for anything is possible with genes. This seedling is part Bear claw anyway and that's an RL or does that not apply? I would like to get Fusion Power, Darrel in on this.

[beefyboy]

I have had many serrated leaf types myself over the years.

[beefyboy]

And thank you Carolyn, that was very informative, and especially good when your agreeing with me about RL and PL from the same batch of seed. I did think it was more possible to be from the same batch than from a stray seed, a stray seed is just a negative quitters response to something that could be more and I do not like cop outs or people that only say no without thoroughly researching it. The wheel would be square if all we had was that way of thinking.

[Ricky Shaw]

Very high probability it's a stray seed.

[beefyboy]

in your opinion Ricky, only in your opinion which means just that.