Time for a New Start

[Landisil]

Well folks.... I am thinking this little experiment in Tomato Gardening is beginning to look like a trip on the Titanic. I have been battling what I believe is or was Early Blight. Treatments were less than effective. aggressive pruning slowed it a bit....however insects began to complicate the issue and the insect problem increased until finally I sprayed with a Non Organic Pesticide this morning. By 4 this afternoon.... I think I have lost the battle. Pictures are included for entertainment value and for education...should anyone have ideas.


Thanks

[dmforcier]

The last pic looks like a bug infestation. Have you gotten out your magnifying glass?

[jillian]

Originally Posted by dmforcier

The last pic looks like a bug infestation. Have you gotten out your magnifying glass?

He did say he sprayed for bugs. I am no expert but looks as if to me might have started with some nutritional deficiency. Are you growing in containers exclusively, if so what is your media and fertilization? I wouldn't give up just yet.

How does new growth look and can u post pics of new growth?

[dmforcier]

Yes he did spray, but that doesn't immediately cure an infestation. Plus, the pre-spray infestation will continue to affect the plant for a while.

What I'm asking him is if he knows that he has an infestation (or doesn't) and what it might be.

Yes, current pics of new growth would be valuable. As would details of the growing media and nutes. MORE INFO.

[Landisil]

Plants are ALL in 5 gallon containers. The original soil was Vigoro Potting mix. Added to the soil before planting was about 1 Cup Garden Lime... 1 Cup of of Jobes All purpose Organic Fertilizer...and about 1/2 Cup Jobs Heirloom Tomato food. Plants have been in soil since Easter. They have received regular doses of Miracle Grow (1 quart every other week) ... they have gotten a 2/3 cup Bone meal dressing...every other week...and about 1/2 Cup of Blood Meal on the alternate week... they have received a Spray treatment of Epsom salt...3 weeks ago...as well as some Iron about 2 weeks ago. They have been treated regularly with NEEM Oil...and Once with a copper fungicide...this morning they were treated with 7 Dust Insecticide...which seems to have aggravated the issue. Requested
pics attached.


Thanks

Frank

[RayR]

You shouldn't add lime to a commercial potting mix, the manufacturer would have added an appropriate amount to PH balance the mix. Adding a ton of lime will drive the PH of the mix way up over time and cause nutrient uptake issues. If you add bone meal, you only need to mix it in once. Microbial activity is needed to mineralize the calcium an phosphorous otherwise it just sits there and does nothing. Blood Meal for Nitrogen, same thing. Spraying with Epsom Salts? Why? Unless you are trying to diagnose a Magnesium deficiency.

I don't see anything that even remotely looks like Early Blight. Looks more like insect or mite damage, a clear picture of the bottom surface of the leaves would be useful.

Some of that leaf and stem discoloration, not sure, could be from all the spraying and/or adding too much amendments and over fertilizing.

[Worth1]

I sort of hate to say it but with all the concoctions and the amount added to each 5 gallon bucket I am surprised they are even alive.

Just being honest.

Worth

[Landisil]

Originally Posted by RayR

You shouldn't add lime to a commercial potting mix, the manufacturer would have added an appropriate amount to PH balance the mix. Adding a ton of lime will drive the PH of the mix way up over time and cause nutrient uptake issues. If you add bone meal, you only need to mix it in once. Microbial activity is needed to mineralize the calcium an phosphorous otherwise it just sits there and does nothing. Blood Meal for Nitrogen, same thing. Spraying with Epsom Salts? Why? Unless you are trying to diagnose a Magnesium deficiency.

I don't see anything that even remotely looks like Early Blight. Looks more like insect or mite damage, a clear picture of the bottom surface of the leaves would be useful.

Some of that leaf and stem discoloration, not sure, could be from all the spraying and/or adding too much amendments and over fertilizing.

I could certainly have made a mistake. The pictures sent earlier are of the CURRENT Issues that I have. I did not keep any detailed pics of the Samples of Early Blight....however I have a picture showing a plant earlier and have marked what I believe was Early Blight. As to the Epsom Salt spray...you will see some Odd Yellowing on this plant...the spray was to Identify the yellowing. Then it appears that you believe my current issue is either Insect damage or Over fertilization?

[clkeiper]

1 cup of lime....? per bucket? I agree with Worth.... I am surprised they have survived that much lime. Lime is caustic. I think 1 1/2 cups of fertilizer is a bit much for a 5 gallon bucket. I don't put anywhere that much in the garden for a tomato plant. it sounds like you're killing them with kindness. too much of everything in the bucket. back off maybe even scoop some out and put in unfertilized potting mix.

[Landisil]

Perhaps, the plants did well for several week.....each of the 6 plants set and have fruit. They are showing approximately 80 tomatoes and flowers showing. The concoctions began when the issues began....discolored leaves..and insects. I guess I could have done nothing and let the insects destroy the plants...or perhaps leave the leaves with blight on the plant. however, I learn by making the occasional mistake and will probably make more mistakes. This is why
i am here.....what would you have done?

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Landisil

I could certainly have made a mistake. The pictures sent earlier are of the CURRENT Issues that I have. I did not keep any detailed pics of the Samples of Early Blight....however I have a picture showing a plant earlier and have marked what I believe was Early Blight. As to the Epsom Salt spray...you will see some Odd Yellowing on this plant...the spray was to Identify the yellowing. Then it appears that you believe my current issue is either Insect damage or Over fertilization?

Still doesn't look like Early Blight, Early Blight lesions are very distinctive, roundish with a concentric circle pattern. Magnesium deficiency symptoms appear as yellowing between the veins. Your picture with the yellowing at the base of the leaves looks just like glyphosate (Roundup) injury.

Thanks for adding the pic of the bottom of the leaf. Bugs huh? Is that a Beet Leafhopper? The spreader of curly top virus. Somebody help me.

[Landisil]

The odd yellowing did indeed turn out to be over spray of roundup by maintenance. There was some recovery accomplished when I sprayed those leaves with an Iron/Zinc liquid supplement. As to the insects....I have been unable to control them.

thanks

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Landisil

Perhaps, the plants did well for several week.....each of the 6 plants set and have fruit. They are showing approximately 80 tomatoes and flowers showing. The concoctions began when the issues began....discolored leaves..and insects. I guess I could have done nothing and let the insects destroy the plants...or perhaps leave the leaves with blight on the plant. however, I learn by making the occasional mistake and will probably make more mistakes. This is why
i am here.....what would you have done?

That's OK, we all have made mistakes, except Worth, he's perfect.
I learned something a long time ago, don't add anything to your soil unless you fully understand what effect it will have on the soil and the plant.
Another thing I learned, don't over fertilize your plants, more is not better. If you don't damage the plant itself, then you may as well put out a sign "Welcome all evil chewing and sucking insects" There's nothing more attractive to these bugs than a stressed plant with weak watery cells.
Bugs are sometimes bad enough on healthy plants, but no where near as bad as on a stressed plant.

[clkeiper]

Have you checked the Ph of the soil mix?
I am not sure which concoctions are after you thought there was a problem but you stated the fertilizer and lime was before you potted them up. " Plants are ALL in 5 gallon containers. The original soil was Vigoro Potting mix. Added to the soil before planting was about 1 Cup Garden Lime... 1 Cup of of Jobes All purpose Organic Fertilizer...and about 1/2 Cup Jobs Heirloom Tomato food."
it is a lot of fertilizer and lime for a 5 gallon bucket. Spraying and treating anything and everything you have read about may not be a really effective method of control since there is the question of "what is it?" I am not fond of neem oil. I have seen phototoxicity occur in my own tomato plants when they were small. I am wondering if the black patches on the stems are from the neem oil. there appears to be a bit of burn on the leaves.. maybe from all the spray. I don't think there is disease on the plants. If there are insects on the plants first you need to identify what it is before throwing something at it. is it good or bad? is it doing damage or not? have you tried just spraying off the plant with a strong spray of water first? then insecticidal soap or even a dawn dish soap spray? do you have any flowering plants around to support beneficial insect populations? beneficials are the easiest route to controlling pests, but we do not always have them at hand when we see a pest. I usually try spraying with water first. then I go scouting for ladybugs and bring them back in to the area where there are pests. If you suspect blight pick off those leaves and dispose of them in the trash, don't drop them on the ground and wash before touching any other plants. do you disinfect your tools or hardware or buckets from year to year or whenever you have an issue you are worried might be a disease? if not I would advise to do so. you could always reinfect your plants from dirty or contaminated tools. do not use tobacco around tomatoes or allow anyone else to do so. maybe add smaller amounts of the side dressings to the buckets, too. more is not always better. sometimes "less is more" when it comes to fertilizing. but for now I wouldn't add anything more to the buckets for fertilizer.

[jillian]

Yikes! Way way too much fert, I agree with the others I am surprised they are even alive. As far as the bugs, seems they had a party up at yours and invited all their friends, quite a diverse party though I do recognize the white flies. Could that be a consequence of the over fertilization?

I see no blight as well. I really hope you can save your plants, I would at least try. Removing some of that soil sounds like a good idea to me.

Good luck, keep us posted