Sewage (Bio Solids) in Your Compost?

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Scooty

OH.... you're talking about EMS..... If your local sanitation facility is releasing bio solids with EMS as compost material.... you've got bigger problems than worrying about it just affecting your garden.

I was thinking of Starlight's friends place.
They had a whole subdivision evacuated in Huston.
Then there was Love Canal.
To take my point even farther.
I used to work at a catalyst recovery plant every now and then.
They extruded heavy metals from spent catalyst.
There would be truck loads of this smoking stuff in dump trucks every day and it would go into a big smoking greenish pile, stunk to high heaven.
On the side of almost every one of those dump trucks were the names of landscaping companies and yard dirt hauling companies.

Worth

[zeuspaul]

Originally Posted by whoose

Talked to the plant manager yesterday an he said that the compost that the sell has less than 20% bio-solids. Also that the testing standard are very strict and they can not even get bio-solids from the treatment plant if the do not meet the initial standards.

They do not use hay, grass, lawn clippings and other possible contaminated sources, just sticks and stems.

A sad day when sludge is considered safer than hay I would take their sticks and stems (shredded tree trimmings) without the addition of the sludge. I don't knowingly use any hay or sludge. Hay would be good if I knew the source. Also, I would not remove the soil with added sludge, I would just not add anymore.

[Scooty]

Originally Posted by Worth1

I was thinking of Starlight's friends place.
They had a whole subdivision evacuated in Huston.
Then there was Love Canal.
To take my point even farther.
I used to work at a catalyst recovery plant every now and then.
They extruded heavy metals from spent catalyst.
There would be truck loads of this smoking stuff in dump trucks every day and it would go into a big smoking greenish pile, stunk to high heaven.
On the side of almost every one of those dump trucks were the names of landscaping companies and yard dirt hauling companies.

Worth

Well, usually industrial waste is separate from residential processing. Also any place these days releasing compost, especially if its local utilities should have an MSDS or something of a similar nature.

[dmforcier]

Are you people high? Malformed radioactive fruits? Freekin Love Canal ?? Based on what, a nightmare someone once had? Certainly not on evidence.

If I were whoose I'd sell my land and move to a nice safe asphalt-encrusted inner city.

Y'all aren't being helpful - to anyone.

[whoose]

I concur I am moving to LA.

Thanks for the productive posts. I still would like some science based advice.

[MarianneW]

This has been an interesting discussion--I've never thought about the heavy metal content of stuff I use. Turns out the Alaska fish emulsion has the same or less Mercury & lead than my municipal water. Anything else I could think of to look up had higher levels! I'm kinda at a loss about what to use or if I should even worry about it at all. Part of what I use is composted kitchen scraps & yard trimmings (palm fronds will compost! You just have to chop them up) so that probably isn't too bad, but otherwise I'm kinda stumped.

Anyway, what's the least contaminated organic fertilizer in your opinion?

[maxjohnson]

Originally Posted by MarianneW

This has been an interesting discussion--I've never thought about the heavy metal content of stuff I use. Turns out the Alaska fish emulsion has the same or less Mercury & lead than my municipal water. Anything else I could think of to look up had higher levels! I'm kinda at a loss about what to use or if I should even worry about it at all. Part of what I use is composted kitchen scraps & yard trimmings (palm fronds will compost! You just have to chop them up) so that probably isn't too bad, but otherwise I'm kinda stumped.

Anyway, what's the least contaminated organic fertilizer in your opinion?

I don't get too concerned except avoiding biosolids really. Overall if something doesn't smell good (ie. most of the craps sold in Home Depot) then I won't use it. But this WSDA database can help if you're really concerned. Or you can request the MSDS of the product from the company, but sometimes they're lacking in information.

Alaska Fish Tomato Tone

[joseph]

If I don't know the provenance of a material it doesn't get added to my garden. Therefore, I don't import any composts, mulches, or manures into my garden.

[Starlight]

Some reading material
https://www.google.com/search?q=vege...able+gardening

In this article, it says you should test the soil, which I think I would get samples of the bio solid soil you may be planning on using and submit to have it tested for heavy metals or anything else that might be harmful. I liked this article from Oregon State University as it also , when you read down, tells you how to combat heavy metals in your soil for vegetables. Liked also the information that compost companies like what your thinking of using don't have to have very detailed reports.

http://smallfarms.oregonstate.edu/sfn/su10toxicmetals

https://www.google.com/search?q=vege...utf-8&oe=utf-8

[Scooty]

Originally Posted by Starlight

Some reading material
https://www.google.com/search?q=vege...able+gardening

In this article, it says you should test the soil, which I think I would get samples of the bio solid soil you may be planning on using and submit to have it tested for heavy metals or anything else that might be harmful. I liked this article from Oregon State University as it also , when you read down, tells you how to combat heavy metals in your soil for vegetables. Liked also the information that compost companies like what your thinking of using don't have to have very detailed reports.

http://smallfarms.oregonstate.edu/sfn/su10toxicmetals

https://www.google.com/search?q=vege...utf-8&oe=utf-8

You might be misinterpreting the article. It discusses how "all heavy metals exist naturally in the soils largely in complex forms with other minerals." It's trying to make the distinction between a free bound arsenic compound vs organic arsenic compound. The inability of Dr. Oz to make this distinction is why he was derided by medical professionals when he said orange juice was unsafe because of arsenic.

It says you should test soil if you are in a suspect area "prior use of lead paint around houses, lead-arsenate sprays for pest control during 1910-1950s, use of leaded gasoline (up to 1996 in Oregon), locations close to former smelters & tailings from metal ore mines, and proximity to fossil fuel-fired electrical plants..." It discusses using lead as a keystone indicator of general heavy metal toxicity because its the most common form of heavy metal toxicity.

At the same time, the bottom half of the article, is a bit of a warning to not overestimate the risk of lead contamination. The bottom part of the article is discussing a case study that examined lead contaminated soils in areas where homes were built in the 1930s. This is being used an an example where heavy metal contamination has no direct impact on agricultural safety, because certain heavy metals are extremely soil bound and have poor plant uptake.

It goes on to clarify that while these levels are in the area studied were above EPA levels, it would actually be ok to eat veggies grown in the area because the lead uptake by plants is so low. (That doesn't mean the area is safe to live in due to breathing in the contamination mind you.) The article states, "there is more concern about lead contamination from external lead on unwashed produce than from actual uptake by plants. This raises the need for everyone to always wash their produce before eating/cooking and places a big responsibility on growers to always wash their leafy vegetables before marketing them since lead laden dust can blow from distant places."

[FlyingZ]

Originally Posted by Compuaide

I grabbed some of the free composted yard waste my municipality was giving away a few years ago to add to a very dense clay yard I ended up with after having my leech fields redone. The contractor did a horrible job of saving the topsoil but 10 years later the septic is working fine.<br />
<br />
I tilled a few pickup truck loads of that black stuff into the yard and planted grass seeds. Parts of that 1/2 acre didn't grow for 2 years. Not even weeds. My guess is herbicides. <br />
<br />
Herbicides won't compost out. Leeching them into the subsoil with 2 years worth of rains seems to have been my answer. Everything is growing now and I am mowing like crazy (why do I fertilize?).<br />
<br />
Worth, on those dryer sheets..... I am good with the fragrance of the Bounce sheets. I bought a box of them when they were on sale at the local supermarket and threw the box under the front seat of the car as a long-term air freshener of sorts. 2 summers later, the sheets have welded themselves together and I have a brick of softener stink in a box.<br />
<br />
You can not separate the sheets at all. I am not going to do that again. What must be in there that the heat inside a car ( has to be a bit less than the heat of a dryer) welds them together?<br />
<br />
Just another life's lesson.<br />
<br />
Ralph

<br />
<br />
Wax

Sent from my samsung SPH-L710T Using Ez Forum for Android

[Worth1]

Someone remind me not to discuss or give opinions on soil issues here at Tomatoville any more.
Getting tired of the ridicule.
Worth

[MarianneW]

Thanks guys, that's helpful to think on.

I'm sure my soil has some interesting metal content. Hmmm.

I grew up around a zinc smelter. It belched smoke out of the tall smoke stack day and night. The soil for miles around the smelter was heavily contaminated with zinc from the smoke coming from the tower. I've never heard of anyone having any ill effects from it including me.

An Exide battery recycling plant was recently forced to close after many, many years of operation. All the neighbors were concerned about lead contamination in the area. The plant was recycling batteries long before anyone built some pretty nice homes close by. I'm still waiting, but I haven't seen any reports of actual soil lead contamination from the plant. They are going through all the motions of treating the area as if there is airborne lead, but I don't think they have found anything. They may find something, but I don't think they have so far.

I worked in oil refineries in my early working days. I used to work in the same building where the insulators would saw blocks of asbestos to fit on pipes. Sometimes the air would look like a fog with all the asbestos dust floating around. I worked in tanks with residual benzene in the sludge which was being cleaned out. I would stick my arm into insulating oil in giant transformers feeling for sludge at the bottom. If I found sludge, the transformer had to be drained and refilled with fresh oil. The oil was full of PCB's.

I've worked in nuclear power plants during the certification process after the reactors were loaded with fuel, but before startup. I don't glow in the dark.

People drive their autos loaded with anti pollution devices costing thousands of dollars on new asphalt highways. The asphalt they are driving on is emitting more hydrocarbons into the air than all of the cars would without the devices. When the asphalt stops emitting hydrocarbons, it is old and beginning to crack pretty bad and needs to be replaced with new asphalt.

At my age, it's a little late to start worrying.

Ted

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by tedln

I grew up around a zinc smelter. It belched smoke out of the tall smoke stack day and night. The soil for miles around the smelter was heavily contaminated with zinc from the smoke coming from the tower. I've never heard of anyone having any ill effects from it including me.

An Exide battery recycling plant was recently forced to close after many, many years of operation. All the neighbors were concerned about lead contamination in the area. The plant was recycling batteries long before anyone built some pretty nice homes close by. I'm still waiting, but I haven't seen any reports of actual soil lead contamination from the plant. They are going through all the motions of treating the area as if there is airborne lead, but I don't think they have found anything. They may find something, but I don't think they have so far.

I worked in oil refineries in my early working days. I used to work in the same building where the insulators would saw blocks of asbestos to fit on pipes. Sometimes the air would look like a fog with all the asbestos dust floating around. I worked in tanks with residual benzene in the sludge which was being cleaned out. I would stick my arm into insulating oil in giant transformers feeling for sludge at the bottom. If I found sludge, the transformer had to be drained and refilled with fresh oil. The oil was full of PCB's.

I've worked in nuclear power plants during the certification process after the reactors were loaded with fuel, but before startup. I don't glow in the dark.

At my age, it's a little late to start worrying.

Ted

Ted I told someone the other day that people shouldn't be allowed to smoke or vote till they were at least 50 years old.
By that time they might have the wisdom to do or not do both.
I had a good friend that always ran around hollering cancer cancer everything gives you cancer.
I used to wash my hands and arms off in benzine and I dont have cancer.
He worked in Chemical plants all of his life.
Well a year later he came down with leukemia of the worst kind and 3 years after that he was dead.
What killed him we will never know.
Was it just because he drew the unlucky hand or was it because of the chemicals.

I can tell you the cancer rate in the Houston area is way higher than any place else around.
Had a lot of good friends die of it there.
The closer you get to the refineries and the ship channel the worse it gets.
These chemicals and metals are triggers or catalysts to some people that are predisposed to things, not all people will be effected but some will be effected.

Yes I do know that some of these regulations seem over the top to a lot of people including myself.
But without them the companies in this country and in other countries wouldn't give one rats a$$ about the people or what it did to them.

Worth