Propagating Prime-Jan Blackberries

[drew51]

Have fun, good luck with your new hedge!

[Worth1]

This is the mattress police, drop your label and come out with your hands over your head.

Take him out boys he has a concealed feather duster.

Sarge we also found an illegal blackberry hedge in his back yard.
Good job Bill keep looking, we might find something else


Worth

[Dutch]

Thanks, Drew and Worth, I needed that!!!
And again thanks to all.

Dutch

[feldon30]

‘Prime-Jan’ resulted from a cross of Ark.1836 × ‘Arapaho’ (Fig. 1), and ‘Prime-Jim’ resulted from ‘Arapaho’ × Ark. 830 (Fig. 2). The crosses were made in 1994 at the University of Arkansas Fruit Substation, Clarksville, as a part of the doctoral dissertation research of J. L.-M. in which he was investigating inheritance of the primocane-fruiting trait (LopezMedina et al., 2000).

So it was a STUDENT PROJECT at a TAXPAYER-FUNDED UNIVERSITY.

Fortunately someone makes a PDF unlocker so I could actually copy-paste that text from the password-protected PDF. Idiots.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Robert Hays

The best thing would be to buy more plants. Phillip Pense at Pense nursery will sell you the plants for about 2.00 per plant shipping included. If you mention my name as a contact that recommended you call him he will sell you the plants at the price I buy them for. I have given him over 40k plants sales in last 3 years so I get them at huge savings as does anyone who mentions my name.

That sounds like a deal!

[Dutch]

I don’t need to purchase any more blackberry plants, whatever kinds I presently have growing are fine for now. I have a clean conscious on the situation and will continue to sleep like a bear in hibernation at night.


Dutch

[barefootgardener]

Originally Posted by Robert Hays

Barefoot gardener, They can prosecute anyone whjo infringes on their patent. NOW, a home gardener that expands their plantings just a few plants would they prosecute? most likely not, but why take a chance? All you have to do is look at when the plants were introduced from the source and it is less than I think 15 years, it is probably still under patent and again why take a chance.

Thank's for the reply Robert. As a backyard gardener I would not live in fear of dividing a few plants if they needed it a few years down the road. We all know how quickly raspberry and blackberry plants spread by runners. They can quickly take over an area, and as a gardener I understand sometimes we need to do what is best for our situation. I tried to dig up some raspberries from an established bed one year, and wanted to move the plants to a new location where they would do better. It was impossible to get all the roots from the first bed and I still ended up with two beds of raspberries, though that was not my intention. They are hard to erradicate. My point is, they were not patented raspberries. But even if they were, I would not live in fear that the patent rasberry police would come after me. I probably would not even remember they were patented to begin with.. Most gardeners who purchase a few patented blackberry bushes at your typical big box store might not even be aware they are patented, or let alone even know what it fully means. Having said all this, I tried to grow blackberries years ago and they did not survive our winters. But, we do have lots of wild blackberries around that thrive and are huge and delicious, if you get to them before the bears do!!

Ginny

[DuckCreekFarms]

Originally Posted by Robert Hays

True that blackberries will sucker, but when you cut the roots that makes a new plant. The people who have patent do not get paid for. The same with tip layering, and root cuttings. It takes years to develop a new variety on any plant and actually 100's of thousands of dollars to get it to market. That is why the patent owners will go after anyone they find out are propagating plants under patent. I have been working for over 15 years on a new variety of muscadine, When I get it finished and have a patent on it you better believe if I hear of someone propagating my plants and I don't get my royalties from it they will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

True, But the Universtiy of Arkansas, who owns the patent(s) is a land grant college under the Smith-Lever Act. So the Hundreds of thousands of dollars that it took to develope those varieties was alsready paid for by YOU (and me) the tax payer.

[DuckCreekFarms]

I didnt' read the entire thread before posting and see what I said above has been covered..

I forgot to mention that I have a friend with a large acrage of Blackberries and drives over to Arkansas to get plants from the Pense Nursery as already mentioned. He talked to the University to see about getting a License to propagate so he could move suckers around to other fields. They seem to be OK with that and mainly interested in nurseries that are propagating for reselling plants.

Also note that the varietes they develope are not as winter hardy as some. U of A is in Zone 7 My friend has some issues, even here, with freeze damage.

[barefootgardener]

Originally Posted by Worth1

This is the mattress police, drop your label and come out with your hands over your head.

Take him out boys he has a concealed feather duster.

Sarge we also found an illegal blackberry hedge in his back yard.
Good job Bill keep looking, we might find something else


Worth

Thanks for the belly laugh and lighting the mood!!

[Worth1]

You guys know what bugs the devil out of me?

Dutch asked how to propagate blackberries.
He could have searched on line and found out everything he needed but he chose to share his ideas and reached out for comradery from us and our knowlage.

One person answered his question (Me) and then he gets a warning from a blackberry expert about propagating patented plants.

No help just a warning.

Then the thread has gone for what two pages now and no more help just talk about patented plants.

My feelings, I buy the plant it is mine it is on my place and I can do with it as as I darn well please.
People can stay off my place they are trespassing and that is what they would have to do to see my plants in the back.
So with that said they broke the law first (a criminal law at tha) to see if I broke a civil law.
The judge here where I live would toss it out of court.

My Lawyer.
So how did you find out Worth was illegally propagating blackberries Mr black beery breeder?

Blackberry breeder.
Well we came on his property and found them.
My lawyer
Did you have permission to come on Worths property?
No we didn't but we heard from this guy on tomatoville---.
Just answer the question yes or no.
No we didn't.
Did you have a warrant to come onto Worths property?
No we didn't?
How did you get the evidence presented in this court?
We dug up a plant while on the property.

So you are telling me that you trespassed on Worths property collected a plant and brought it here as evidence?
Without a warrant.
We tried but the Judge we had to get one from was eating one of Worths blackberry pies and he wouldn't give us one.

Is this judge here in court today?
Yes he is, he is presiding over this case.
As a matter of fact he is eating one of Worths sausages as we speak.

Your honor I ask that this case be dismissed under the grounds that Mr blackberry breeder not only broke the law trespassing on Worths property.
He also violated his 4th amendment rights protecting him from unreasonable search and seizure.
He also had no probable cause other than hear say from some forum called tomatovill.
Which I might add is why no search warrant was issued in the first place.

Judge.
I here by rule in favor of the defendant under the grounds that his 4th amendment rights were violated.
The plaintiff will be ordered to replace the blackberry plants 100 times over.and pay all court costs.
Plus pay for the 5 shotgun shells he used chasing your lousy rear ends off of his property.

Case dismissed, some of us have a BBQ and fish fry at Worths house to attend.


Worth

[Robert Hays]

Drew, I am not going to argue with you about what they will or wont do. My experience is that there was a small farmer that started to sell a few plants at several farmers markets and someone bought one had the DNA from plant found out that it was under patent and he did not have license to propagate, he is currently serving time he lost his farm of 25 acres and the patent owner came to me since I was consulting for the other small farmer, to get started in the berry business. I had to prove to them where every one of my plants came from so they would see I wasn't infringing on their patented plants. I keep records of everything. So you will never know who will or wont show up, just saying. That other farmer didn't have but 25 plants that he bought and still had those and a few more and sold something like 30 plants from suckers.

[Robert Hays]

On a last note if I get blasted for sharing my experiences, and let people know what can happen and about the laws etc. Then Maybe this group is not for me! I will thinkl about it for a day or two to decide if I will remain in this group!!!

[DuckCreekFarms]

Robert

just curious who the patent owner that sued was? A university or a private company?

thanks

[Dutch]

Robert I would like some advise on the best way to propagate blackberries. I wholesale vegetables to marketers and only vegetables, nothing else. I grow grapes, blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, and goji berries for my own personal use, but I do not sale the plants or the fruit they produce. Are you willing to provide some advice on propagation?
Dutch