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Old July 15, 2010   #31
hasshoes
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For the record, when I posted my thread "So are you thinking about not spraying" I WAS NOT advocating so-called "panic spraying" as it was implied and also titled on this thread, nor am I trying to convert people into spraying anything they don't want and/or spray anything at all. I was treated dismissively last year over late blight, so I guess it's no surprise I'm getting mocked again. I guess it comes with the territory when you have a screen name like hasshoes. Last year I deleted a lot of the threads and news links as well as science links I posted on late blight because I'm so "hysterical" about it, so I'll remove myself from this thread and remove the rest of my un-deleted blight posts.
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Old July 15, 2010   #32
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There very well could be lurkers that don't post; or folks in the future that do a search for information that do/will find the information & links useful. No need to delete that information, if you think it's helpful or will be, let it be.
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Old July 15, 2010   #33
hasshoes
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Unfortunately I deleted most of my late blight links last year when I felt like I was being treated as a hysterical female. Every time I posted something about pulling plants or potential plant losses, someone would then go and make a "late blight isn't a big deal?" sort of post. I felt like I was being jabbed, I showed it to people that agreed, then someone here compared me to a global warming crazy person. That was too much and I deleted a bunch. Anything on late blight can easily be found by typing in late blight to google or on youtube. I will leave all my other non-blight info/questions that could be helpful.
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Old July 15, 2010   #34
Timmah!
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All I might suggest is my personal philosophy: Do what you do according to your own principles & try not to let other people's responses negatively affect your decisions. Let that person be apathetic, negative, counterproductive, or whatever the case may be; letting it predilect your course of action is uneccessary grief for you & nothing more.
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Old July 16, 2010   #35
hasshoes
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ty Timmah :0) :0) :0) Clearly you are also wise beyond your screen name. ;0) :0)
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Old July 17, 2010   #36
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Heather, no such thing as panic spraying and it is better to spray as a preventive than not at all. Everybody has their own opinion and thats what the advice we give is, an opinion. No experts per say but just a lot of people with a lot of experience sharing information.The reason for these forums is sharing information and helping out when one can. Bottom line is it's your garden and what you do in it is your business and your actions will determine the outcome. All we can do is give opinions and advice when questions are asked. Just think of all the information you learned on LB during the course of your information search. Ami
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Old July 17, 2010   #37
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I said I'd be back later to speak to some of what you posted but Thursday was a wipeout and yesterday was an appt with the eye surgeon about my two cataract sugeries this summer and so much was put in my eyes I couldn't even see until about 9 PM last night and then I did only a few short answers.

You said that what you wrote was from the net and from the way it reads some is your input as well, so I'm just going to give my view without knowing the source, whether the net or you.


(I've been gardening for almost 40 years. While I tend to do it organically, that's not an absolute. I will use non-organic methods if necessary and I won't feel bad about it. I've had a few run ins with Late Blight over the years and never knew what it was. I just accepted it and moved on. With the advent of the Internet and the explosion of information I have learned more about plant diseases in the last 5 years than I did in the previous 35. The information I posted below is some of the knowledge I've acquired over the last few years. I believe most of it is correct but be aware that it was gleaned from the Internet. We all know how dependable that can be. I am open to corrections. If someone sees an error please say so.)

You asked if someone saw errors to please say so, so yes, I see some errors but also some info that isn't necessarily an error but there's more than one viewopiint.

(Let's see if this clears it up for you.
Relative humidity is far more important than temperature in the incidence of Late Blight. One model(see below) using Smith Periods does it by measuring periods of two consecutive days in which the temperature is over 50 degrees and the relative humidity is over 90% for 11 hours or more on each day. Ten hours doesn't count. There is no maximum temperature used. Warmer days have a tendency to have lower relative humidity and more sunlight (UV rays kill Late Blight spores). That's why Late Blight likes the cooler weather. It doesn't mean it's not active in hot weather. In any case, the spores must be present to multiply.
Rain may not be 100% predictable but we can usually come pretty close in predicting temperature and relative humidity. Ignore the rain. Unless it rains constantly for two days, it doesn't matter. Tropical Storms ,the ones that bring Late Blight to us, are also predictable. It generally takes several days for them to make their way up from the Southland. That's more than enough time to get ready. You just have to pay attention. If somehow a surprize storm originates in an area only a few hundred miles away from you that's infested with Late Blight and dumps a lethal dose on your garden, go out and buy a Lotto ticket. It's your lucky day.)

Tropical storms that come up the East coast are not the major way in which LB reaches us in our area. As you've said above warmer areas discourage LB and that's correct, So the SE has never been a place where a lot of LB is found. In our part of the country the winds are westerly, from W to E and spores can be transmitted hundrds of miles via air and in raindrops, and we here on the East also have storms with weather patterns that hook around from the N to the S.

(Last year's Late Blight in tomatoes has little to do with what happens this year or even next year. It is not more likely this year. It may have even convinced the potato farmers to do a better job of cleaning up their fields. The prime cause last year was the importation of infected plants that were sold at all the Big Box stores. That combined with the cold, damp, sunless weather created the perfect storm. While it's true that the one case in NY this year can be traced to the same Company, it is still the only case. The local Media made a big stink about it, so if there were additional cases, we would have heard about it. The Media loves bad news and the silence so far is deafening. Because of all of our potato farms, Late Blight is common here. There have been fewer reports than usual this year. Even the potato farmers aren't complaining yet.)

The positive from last year is that more folks are aware of LB now and may be able to more properly Dx LB with both tomatoes and potatoes.

it's been shown that the LB last year was not due to Bonnie plants imported from the SOuth. Bonnie has 28 greenhouses here in the NE and that's where the plants came from and they were clean when delivered but acquired LB sitting outside at the various big box stores.

I jsut checked the Cornell LB update and not much has been reported but what's psoted there is as good as the local Coop Ext being contacted by farmers and home growers is, then confirming, or not, LB, and then reporting it. Not a perfect systgem but all we have.

(If you're asking for an absolute guarantee that any course of action will prevent Late Blight, forget it. It's not going to happen. Even if you use Chlorothanolil as the label recommends, you can still get it. Here's why. Chlorothanolil coats the plant parts and prevents the spore(actually an oömycete, spore is easier to spell) from attaching itself. After spraying, your plants are absolutely protected for 12 hours, no more. Tomato plants are growing constantly and producing new, unprotected tissue at an incredible rate. My plants grow, on average,over 1 inch in height per day. That one inch is all Late Blight needs. The laws of probability say that it's unlikely that the spore will land on that unprotected area but it can happen. Anyone who guarantees Chlorothanolil will absolutely protect your plants is a fool. Chlorothanolil reduces the probability, nothing more. There is also the possibility that a genetic mutation will render the spore immune to Chlorothanolil. The more of it we use, the more likely it is that it will happen. For that reason I prefer to use it as a weapon of last resort.
As a resident of New York State there are resources available to you that will help you make an informed decision as to whether spraying is necessary. I check both of these sites daily.)

I agree that nothing related to anything biological is ever 100% but I do disagree with your comment that Daconil protects for only 12 hours which disagrees with the following.

Daconil has been used for about 30 years. The concentration of molecules that need to cover all the attachment sites for the spores on the leaf surface is kinown and that's reflected in the dilution of the concentrate that's directed, as well as the interval between sprayings that's given. And here I speak to the 29.6% concentrate b'c Daconil is offered under several different brand names and in different concentrations for different purposes.

Once the leaf is formed the attachment sites are there and there's no turnover synthesis of those leaf structures, so the Daconil molecues covering them stay until washed off by rain when Daconil needs to be reapplied. The interval of 5-7 days is given so that any newly synthesized leaves can be protected.

You mention your plants can grow an inch a day, and that's fine as to your obervation, but isn't necessarily associated with synthesis of new foliage since it can reflect just stem synthesis.

Is protection 100%. No, nothing biological is ever 100% but Daconil is the best known anti-fungal, so docmumented to use for LB, EB and Septoria Leaf Spot prevention, not cure.

And you say that anyone who says that Daconil is 100 effective is a fool, pretty strong word, but I don't know anyone or anywhere that such a comment has ever been made.

(This one will give you when and where the disease has been reported in the State. As you will see, only one County in the State has had a confirmed case. That was a month ago and nothing has been seen since. Unfortunately, it's the County I live in and the current conditions have been right for the growth of spores, so I spray. The report is prepared by Dr.Meg McGrath from Cornell. She's one of the foremost experts in the world on the subject of Late Blight. Her blog will also indicate if the disease is found in a neighboring State.)

I have no commennt on the above.

http://blogs.cornell.edu/lateblight/



(This tool will give you information on whether or not the conditions are suitable for the spread of the disease in your area. It does not say the disease is present, just whether or not conditions foster its development. It's based on a system called Smith Periods that accurately predict the possibility of Late Blight based on temperature and humidity over time. Zoom in to your County, click on the balloon closest to your home and it will give you all the info you need. It will also give you a forecast for several days in the future. Poke around. There's a lot of info here.

http://uspest.org/risk/tom_pot_map

Like I said, I spray but I would prefer not to. If those two tools told me it wasn't necessary. I would not spray Chlorothanolil for Late Blight. I might use it for other diseases in my garden but not for Late Blight.

Whether you spray or not is your decision. Preventive spraying is good if it is needed but a waste if it is not . Just remember that there are no absolute guarantees.

Please forgive the length of this post. You made a lot of points. I tried to address them all.

****

Such Smith periods are used mainly by those who try to grow organically, but in NYS info comes directly from Cornell to the various Cornell Coop Ext offices in the various counties and is then transmitted to commercial fields at risk via the individual farmers. There's also a bulletin that I used to get that's mailed to anyone who wants it, commercial or otherwise.

For quite a few years I worked with the Cornell Coop Ext in the five county area around Albany and I got to know how things work in NYS but can't speak to other states.
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