Green Sausage and Pick Out (accidental cross)

[Tom Wagner]

DSCN1269.jpg

I was walking with Matt of the SSE in Iowa last July, and came upon the increase block of Green Sausage tomato plants being grown for seed inventory. Since it is a variety I developed and sent the original seed to Holland in 1996 as Greensleeves, I was naturally intrigued.

I noticed all of the plants seemed to be the right size, shape of leaf, or so on, but this one plant stood out; it was much taller and the fruit were developing much different. I told Matt that he shouldn't save seed from this plant for stockpiling in the SSE seed bank. I also told him it was an obvious outcross or hybrid, as the leaves were slightly slender as Green Sausage plants had but still wider than the true OP would be. Matt was about to pull the plant out, and I said, 'Whoa, could I have the fruits from that plant instead?"

Well, lo and behold, he sent the fruits to me along with some the Green Sausage fruits. Thanks, Matt!!

The thumbnail above will illustrate the differences of the original Green Sausage and the obvious hybrid.

The hybrid was assuredly later in maturity than the parent. The fruits of Green Sausage are past their prime and shriveling a bit. The stripes are not real evident here, and I recall the last fruits to develop did not have the vivid stripes as the early fruit sets had.

The new hybrid is brownish is color, which is rather typical of green flesh X unknown hybrids. The flavor is somewhat like the Green Sausage, not super but not bad either.

The segregation in the F-2 generation will give me some opportunities in life's travels with gene sorting to develop some new types. The best one to look like Green Sausage (Greensleeves) will be called Lady Green Sleeves.

The one that segregates the most from the prototypical Green Sausage will be called Anne Boleyn.

Hopefully, Anne Boleyn will match the suitor of this promiscuous Green Sleeves tomato. I may even hazard a guess as to the male parent, and if I think it is a rather large fruited variety, I will call another, this opposition variety, as King Henry VIII.

Why did I originally call the Green Sausage tomato Greensleeves?
It has to do with the color of the Lady Green Sleeves getting her name from the grass stains on her sleeves from a rather unmentionable rendezvous. With this stigma attached, the Lady, and other ladies, were required to wear the green sleeves as a professional label. I hope this accidental cross I've shown here does not suggest a tendency toward indigressions of the Greensleeves tomatoes.

Greensleeves grows quite close to the ground, with a fair amount of foliage for a small compact vine. It grows so fast that the fruits get green streaks of stain on their sleeves.

Tom Wagner
.

[Tom Wagner]

Ode to Green Sausage/Greensleeves

Alas, my lovely tomato, you do me wrong,
To cast me off discourteously.
For I have savored you well and long,
Delighting in your company.

Chorus:
Greensleeves was all my joy
Greensleeves was my delight,
Greensleeves was my heart of green,
And what is this Green Sausage name but my lady Greensleeves?

Your vows you've broken, like my heart,
Oh, why did you so enrapture me?
Now I remain in a world apart
You in Holland, me in America
But my naming you Greensleeves; remains in captivity






Poetic justice, enabling one to vent with humor with a bit of rhyme.


(Tom Wagner)

[carolyn137]

Since it is a variety I developed and sent the original seed to Holland in 1996 as Greensleeves, I was naturally intrigued.


*****

And I was just as intrigued when someone sent me a commercial pack of what we know as Green Sausage from a Swedish firm called, I think, Wiebull's, or something similar.

I don't know if your Greensleeves was on display when Kees was doing those open houses, do you remember? But I do know that some fruits of some of the varieties went for a walk from the greenhouse exhibitions with some of those attending.

Since I already had trialed for you Chile Verde and I can't remember the other one right now, I never did grow anthing out of that commercial pack.

[Tom Wagner]

I don't know if your Greensleeves was on display when Kees was doing those open houses, do you remember? But I do know that some fruits of some of the varieties went for a walk from the greenhouse exhibitions with some of those attending.

Yes, Greensleeves was on display, and it was an eye-opener and fav of many visitors there in Holland. I was there showing it all about as well. I even called it Greensleeves to one and all. Imagine my dismay when people like the name Green Sausage to Greensleeves.

Chile Verde is but a distance cousin to Greensleeves. Green Nails is one of the parental groups within my Greensleeves.

Carolyn, you must of understood my Poetic Justice troika?

Tom Wagner

[Suze]

Why did I originally call the Green Sausage tomato Greensleeves?
It has to do with the color of the Lady Green Sleeves getting her name from the grass stains on her sleeves from a rather unmentionable rendezvous. With this stigma attached, the Lady, and other ladies, were required to wear the green sleeves as a professional label. I hope this accidental cross I've shown here does not suggest a tendency toward indigressions of the Greensleeves tomatoes.

Greensleeves grows quite close to the ground, with a fair amount of foliage for a small compact vine. It grows so fast that the fruits get green streaks of stain on their sleeves.

LOL!

Poetic justice, enabling one to vent with humor with a bit of rhyme.

Thanks for the smiles and laughter, Tom. Post more.

Yours in tomatoes,
Suze

[Catntree]

Tom!

Did you see this F3 from unknown green sausage cross?

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=6397

Would you like seeds, or more info?

I am soon to post more pics of it, i think.

Just LMK,

Tree

[carolyn137]

Chile Verde is but a distance cousin to Greensleeves. Green Nails is one of the parental groups within my Greensleeves.

****

Tom, be it an incestuous or more distant relation to Greensleeves it's a green when ripe that I liked very much.

****
Carolyn, you must of understood my Poetic Justice troika?

I did, I did.

So help me Tom I don't know where you come up with some of what you say, but keep saying it, whatever it is.

[Tom Wagner]

http://www.tomatoville.com/attachmen...5&d=1187892629

Tree, is this yours?

No, I had not seen the thread, and it took a bit of time to find it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Keep us posted either here on this thread of the other.

Thanks for the smiles and laughter, Tom. Post more. :smile:Suze

So help me Tom I don't know where you come up with some of what you say, but keep saying it, whatever it is.Carolyn

Funny that you folks want me to say whatever it is I say. But, Carolyn, so help me you, I can't help it, what I say is beyond help. Besides that my thought processes converging and diverging energy that creates the Schnickelfritz in me,an endearing term meaning 'little chatterbox', or else I think so.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Tom Wagner

Funny that you folks want me to say whatever it is I say.

Tom, that's because the vast majority of "us" (tinu) really like you and value your opinion. I'm so very glad you're hanging out and contributing here at Tomatoville.

Suze

[Catntree]

Here they are on the plant...which completely collapses from the weight of the fruit. Plant...ohhh...2-3 feet tall...early ripener...

Is it mine? Only in the sense that the uk cross showed up in my garden and I decided to grow it ourt and then select for plump fruit. A real breeder like you could do something with this, perhaps...I dunno. I thought of you, Tom, when I saw the nice striping

[Catntree]

And here are some riper ones...some have that odd shape...some do not.

[Tom Wagner]

Quotes from Catntree

completely collapses from the weight of the fruit. Plant...ohhh...2-3 feet tall...early ripener..

Sounds like it is a fairly compact determinate of a type a call a birdsnest habit. Early? That would come from the original female side of the Green Sausage (Greensleeves).

Is it mine? Only in the sense that the uk cross showed up in my garden and I decided to grow it out and then select for plump fruit.

UK cross? Does that mean received from a United Kingdom source? What was the shape last year, since you said you decided to grow it out. Was is only partly striped last year, and much more so this year?

A real breeder like you could do something with this, perhaps...I dunno. I thought of you, Tom, when I saw the nice striping :smile:

As a so-called "real breeder" I tend to cringe at unknown crosses, since I have so many 'legitimate' crosses to deal with. I have an a priori complex from many years of anticipating the outcomes of a selfing program from planned crosses. In other words , I want to compute my odds, plant the numbers, and select quickly for what I want. When I enter a selection into the computer for a database, I want to see the family tree branch out to a hundred parental lines if I can. Too many Ukn entries creates a confusion, because I want to know what everything is by each cross having two known parents. I am a 'Who's yo Daddy?' type of breeder! Sometimes I hum tunes like a Hank Williams song as below:

HERE'S NO NEED FOR ME, TO EVEN TRY TO KNOW HIM,
NOTHIN' WILL TURN OUT RIGHT,
WHEN I LOST A NAME FOR HIM, I LOST THE WILL TO SOW,
AND I'M LOST, LIKE THAT STRANGER IN THE NIGHT

Not to say what you have is worthless. The sense that the parent, (unbeknownst), is a variety early enough for the UK to grow is intriguing. I would be interested in your selection as breeding stock. At least the next hybrid and its recombinants will be 3/4s identifiable. And the ukn in then sandwiched into a prototype of describable or inherent association.

I am kinda known for my interest in tomatoes with stripes and/or greens, so thanks for thinking of me.

Tom Wagner

[Tom Wagner]

Tree,

I was busy typing and sent my previous message before seeing your thumbnails. Sorry.

I think the flesh color is still segregating. They look like a lot of green fleshed tomatoes in early combination with other tomatoes, as they tend to appear brownish in the cut flesh. I will await those cuts. Thanks, Tom Wagner

[Catntree]

The first pic is the line I grew out this year: F2,
And the second is a line I didn't choose. F2 included a sausage yellow, a small top-shaped tricolor, a sausage brown, the striped one you see and the plump, which I grew out this year. Actually, your unknown cross looks a lot like mine did....so you will probably get the same variety of results I have...have fun!
As far as still seggregating...it's only F3, so I agree it's got a long way to go. Bear in mind I can only grow out a dozen crossed plants at the most....

[Tom Wagner]

Thanks, Tree,

The problem with selfing out hybrids is always numbers. Tim Peters and I have both gotten around the numbers game by growing the segregating populations in very small pots.

By growing in small containers, 2", 3", 4" and up, one can get a plant to grow quite healthily to the first bloom or two. Once one fruit begins to grow, the plant stunts inself in order to finish off the fruiting process. Pinching off any other buds or even topping the plant speeds in this procedure. The smaller the container, the more apt you will be selecting for earlier and smaller fruit. I grew out a lot of seedlings in those 72 cell trays this year and in the past. The plants literally die the cell before the fruit sometimes ripens, but give them time to cure, you can easily extract seed from a mini fruit that has at least a few seed. Hopefully, you will have enough color and shape to select for but probably not for flavor and size factors. I try to let the tray root into the ground for extra life of the seedlings.

The F-2 seedling year is important to grow out 100 or more tomato plants. With a very few exceptions, most of those F-2 plants will have a majority of their traits heterozygous, with just a few genes in the homozygous line up. It takes an educated guess as to which ones to keep. Most folks just keep seed from the most unusual types, moving away from what the F-l fruit looked like. Starting with the F-3 generation, one can grow as few as 10 plants per selection descent and do pretty well, but one should grow at least 4 plants per filial generation just to witness variation. If all four plants within whatever generation begin looking identical , you are on your way to stabilizing the prototype.

Tom Wagner