Shelves and lights for seedlings - how would you do it?

[bower]

Well... here is something about fire safety I am glad I read and didn't know about.

First, the old fashioned magnetic ballasts can be a fire hazard if you don't change out your bulbs before they burn out. So getting a bargain on some used ballasts and T12s is not maybe a great idea. Also another virtue of the wire shelf structure, it would allow maximum air circulation which these fixtures need.

https://www.firerescue1.com/fire-pro...ballast-fires/
http://nemesis.lonestar.org/referenc...nt/safety.html

Second, the electronic ballasts can have fire hazard issues as well, as I believe also discussed in the second reference above.

The ballast can overheat, smoke, arc or catch fire in some circumstances - power surges, loose lamp connections... This has nothing to do with grounded or not.

When I got my shop lights a couple of years ago, I had to return one that started to smoke and stink. Home Depot just replaced it and I bought more of the same fixtures at the time, which have all worked fine. The only problem, the bulbs tend to fall out when you move the lights from place to place. Had to double check the seating every time I cleaned or moved them and then hang up gingerly... Now today I stumbled on this article, that fixtures, I believe the same ones I bought, have been recalled because of causing fires! I will have to find my receipts and paperwork to check if they are the same... Fires occurred because of a poor fit for the lamps causing broken connections and ballast overheating. So anyone who bought at Home Depot, check your model number.
https://www.schmidtlaw.com/fluoresce...orts-of-fires/

Once again I'm back to my preference for an all metal shelf structure.
You can call me paranoid, but I'll take it if it helps me live longer....

[Cole_Robbie]

Metal halide bulbs are prone to exploding when they overheat, like when confined to a small reflector hood without any airflow. Sodium bulbs will do the same, but they rupture internally, whereas the halide can blow red-hot pieces of glass everywhere.

[bower]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Metal halide bulbs are prone to exploding when they overheat, like when confined to a small reflector hood without any airflow. Sodium bulbs will do the same, but they rupture internally, whereas the halide can blow red-hot pieces of glass everywhere.

LED bulbs will explode too if you put them in confined spaces and they overheat. I had one that busted in a clip on light with a 'hood' - I never thought of that as too confined. There was an outage and then the power came back on and the next thing I knew, sparks flying out of the lamp, luckily I was able to unplug it. Both the bulb and the lamp, permanently dead after that.

I'm glad none of my fluorescent tubes broke when tumbling out of the lousy fixtures. More of a hazard than I realized! as well.
I checked my receipts and my lights were bought the year before the recall. The stock number is different but the products are made by the same company and look to be identical, down to the requirement to 'snap' the connectors into place during assembly. Still worried about it, but apparently no recourse.

[throwaway]

Well this thread turned scary

Unfortunately (or fortunately maybe?) my plant starting setup is in an unfinished basement with block walls and a good 10 ft to anything flammable above - no natural light. Temperatures are probably in the low to mid-60's for those months which I'm guessing slows growth and prevents the plants from getting leggy even if my light sources are somewhat inadequate? Probably going with this unit: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sandusky...72-Z/205442456

Still kind of taken by the wire shelving with perpendicular trays and lights idea. If the shop light hooks are on the ends of the fixture, is there any reason they couldn't hang at a diagonal? Not sure if I'm making sense. I imagine you'd still be able to balance and adjust height of the lights the same as you would if the hanging chains were vertical.

Would need to do a 2'-3' light to avoid illuminating the floor. 3' LED not particularly expensive: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...-DNA/301158095

Are there any 2' fluorescent shop lights? I see some hard wire type, but I don't think that is happening for me.

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by throwaway

Well this thread turned scary

Unfortunately (or fortunately maybe?) my plant starting setup is in an unfinished basement with block walls and a good 10 ft to anything flammable above - no natural light. Temperatures are probably in the low to mid-60's for those months which I'm guessing slows growth and prevents the plants from getting leggy even if my light sources are somewhat inadequate? Probably going with this unit: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sandusky...72-Z/205442456

Still kind of taken by the wire shelving with perpendicular trays and lights idea. If the shop light hooks are on the ends of the fixture, is there any reason they couldn't hang at a diagonal? Not sure if I'm making sense. I imagine you'd still be able to balance and adjust height of the lights the same as you would if the hanging chains were vertical.

Would need to do a 2'-3' light to avoid illuminating the floor. 3' LED not particularly expensive: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...-DNA/301158095

Are there any 2' fluorescent shop lights? I see some hard wire type, but I don't think that is happening for me.

You'd be limiting yourself to a 5-6" plant height using that shelf. Better off with this one which would give you at least a 12" plant height limit.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sandusky...86-C/206115033

I grew over 200 plants (pepper & tomato) last year on a 6 foot high 3 shelf system and ran out of vertical space way before the horizontal shelf space was taken up.

[throwaway]

I'm terrible with visual/spacing stuff in my head, but here is the way I picture the 6ft layout.

ft
0 - Tray
1 - Empty
2 - Light/Shelf/Tray
3 - Empty
4 - Light/Shelf/Tray
5 - Space
6 - Light

If I lost 6" to the light and other spacing, that's still 18" of plant height I think?

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by throwaway

I'm terrible with visual/spacing stuff in my head, but here is the way I picture the 6ft layout.

ft
0 - Tray
1 - Empty
2 - Light/Shelf/Tray
3 - Empty
4 - Light/Shelf/Tray
5 - Space
6 - Light

If I lost 6" to the light and other spacing, that's still 18" of plant height I think?

The shelf you post is 72"H with 5 empty spots which is about 14 inches per empty spot. Assuming 6 inches for the light/shelf/tray inbetween and you have 8 inches left (you could go low profile lights and save a couple inches). Now for the kicker .... subtract the height of your pot. With a 3 inch high pot it only leaves 5 inches for the plant.
Ideally you would want 12-18 inches of vertical space just in case you germinate too early and transplant too late like I did last year Just trying to save you a headache buddy!

[Worth1]

You could also just not use all the shelves and not put one or two of them in.
Worth

[Father'sDaughter]

The beauty of the chrome shelf units is that the shelves are all adjustable.

I set one of the upper shelves narrow for when the seedlings are really small, and then the others at gradually taller intervals. Since my seed starting is spaced out, I can move the trays down to taller shelves as I go along.

Another plus is that you can loop/hook the chains for the lights through any part of the shelf--doesn't have to go at the ends of the shelf.

And if you consider a taller unit, keep you ceiling height in mind! My basement has a much lower ceiling height than the main floor, so a taller unit down there was out of the question.

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by Worth1

You could also just not use all the shelves and not put one or two of them in.
Worth

Can be done, but the corners of each shelf is what adapts each short leg piece for the next level, you would need pipe adapters between to connect between levels to do that.

No, my bad, it looks like you can do that without adapters for this one ... I was thinking each level was stackable.

[throwaway]

I germinated too early last year...some of my plant outs must have been 2-3ft tall! Lesson learned.

Have you tried the LED tape lights?

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by rhines81

Can be done, but the corners of each shelf is what adapts each short leg piece for the next level, you would need pipe adapters between to connect between levels to do that.

No, my bad, it looks like you can do that without adapters for this one ... I was thinking each level was stackable.

Nope one long pole that if need be could be cut off to accommodate lower ceilings.
Like Father'sDaughter said just move the shelves up and down.
These are from the commercial kitchen industry as to where they came from.
Very versatile I have seem hundreds of them.
Come with and without wheels and all sorts of stuff.
You simply cant go wrong.

Worth

[bower]

The chrome shelves look great. As long as they are adjustable, you can set it up just right. I will definitely take a look and see what they're asking for them here.
I'm waiting to hear back from Home Depot, whether they will take back my lights as part of the recall. Someone is checking the numbers (I hope) to confirm it is the same product, which it obviously is afaict. In the meantime I am afraid to use the lights, so I haven't got any micros or winter greens started. I hope it doesn't take much longer to get this sorted out. My bad not theirs I only got email out to them a few days ago, and they did reply the next day with more questions than answers, but now I am waiting to hear back. Hopefully get my ducks in a row by the first week of January.
My thought is to upgrade to LED and just get one light or two of a quality product instead of the previous plan (more and cheaper). Cheap is great except when it might burn your house down.
If Home Depot don't satisfy me about the unsafe product, I will likely take my business elsewhere.

[throwaway]

I saw Feit has a LED bulb that goes into a fluorescent ballast...wonder if that circumvents the risks discussed above?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-Ele...D-RP/206036836

[bower]

Originally Posted by throwaway

I saw Feit has a LED bulb that goes into a fluorescent ballast...wonder if that circumvents the risks discussed above?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-Ele...D-RP/206036836

Sadly no. The hazard is caused by the pull-down socket design - sockets don't hold the bulbs snugly and this can cause a fire risk. It's the ballast that overheats when the bulb connection isn't made properly, and can catch fire.
So a LED bulb would fall out just as easily as the others, and bad connection make the ballast overwork etc.
Otherwise, I would buy the LED bulb and put it in the same fixtures.