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Old August 17, 2007   #16
Earl
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Picardy is a great canner plus general all around tomato. The French have been using it for cooking since 1885. The French don't use a cooking ingredient for over a 100 years unless it has great taste.

Andes Horn is a great canner plus cooks down into a sauce that is A+. Also it tastes good enough to use fresh. CHOPTAGers have tasted both canned and the opinion on which tastes best was split.

I also cook down anything I grow into sauce. The result is fantastic. But canning whole is a whole nother ballgame. Actually, I don't can whole ones, I cut in half and remove the seeds.

I'm trying some new canner types this year but the jury is still out.
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Old August 17, 2007   #17
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Not having the experience, I thought it would be fun to grow Banana Legs and Green Sauage.

What a shock!

First, very good looking fruits, nothing much in terms of taste for fresh eating , but OMG!!! non-stop fruit production!

Because they are not very good tasting, so I have not been paying attention to them. I just let them crawl all over the ground with mud all over them and I never spray them with anything, yet there is not any sign of disease.

Today, I Just made three gallons of yellow salsa! Thank goodness for Ziplock bags

Many more to come. Trying to decide on a sauce recipe.

dcarch
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Old August 18, 2007   #18
spyfferoni
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I am growing Yellow Bell, Rio Grande, Heidi, Olpalka, and Aker's Pink plum this year. So far Rio Grande is the largest and best producing, although mine look more elongated than Mark's photo. The yellow bell are on the smaller side, as are Aker's Pink Plum. Heidi is doing great, but Olpalka has something wrong with it. It hasn't looked very healthy and isn't producing. I'll try a different source for seeds and give it another try though since so many recommend it. I've also had good luck with plain old San Marzano. I liked that I could leave them on the counter for a few days and they wouldn't get too ripe or soft before I got around to using them, they also add a really rich red color to sauce. I am growing Campbell's 1327 this year, so I'll see how it does. I'm just barely starting to get ripe tomatoes, so I'll have to come back to this thread in a few weeks. Last year the tomato I canned the most of was Early Goliath. It had a good taste and was very productive for me, even in the heat, and early enough that I got a lot of ripe fruit off of it before it got too cold. It was a lot bigger than Kimberly, so they were easier to peel. Monomakha's Hat has been producing well this year, so it might be a good heart variety for sauce. Anyway, don't know if I've been of much help...

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Old August 18, 2007   #19
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Mark, truly droolworthy photos. Thanks for posting all that eye candy, and please don't ever lose your trademark white foam plate.

I see you've posted one, but here's my pic of Sarnowski Polish Plum. I really don't grow many paster or cooking types, but (I repeat myself) was really impressed with this one. I got some really pretty doubles earlier in the season that I did not get a pic of:


Click for Larger Size


Perito Italian, another winner:


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I'll also throw in a pic of Picardy, since Unca Earl did not post one:


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VB Russia, which Carolyn mentioned recently (but maybe not on this thread):


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Tony's Italian, which was only moderately productive for me, but outstanding flavor:


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Linnie's Oxheart, which I am totally in love with (lighting could have been better):


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Heinz 1370, an old "Mischka" favorite, excellent for cooking/canning:


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Old August 18, 2007   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nctomatoman View Post
One of my favorite traditional plum shaped types that is a tomato machine - and has the advantage of good fresh flavor (so more versatile than many of the Roma types) is the bright yellow fruited, indeterminate Yellow Bell. To me, this is a highly underrated variety...you just gotta like yellow tomato sauce or paste!
That's good to know. I've had seeds for Yellow Bell for three years now from Deer Park, maybe I will finally give this one a go next spring.
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Old August 18, 2007   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by where_with_all View Post
"The Sarnowski family, from whom I got the seeds, wanted to call it a plum, but I don't see it that way at all."

Carolyn,What would you call it?

I'd call it a shorter fatter long red type such as Opalka. Please see the picture of Sarnowski that Suze posted. And yes, I forgot about Perito Italian, another variety I was lucky to get as well as Tony's Italian, and you could add in Matt D Imperio as well, if it's more of a plum type you want.


*****
The reasons I don't like paste tomatoes, as a group, are b'c many are very susceptible to Early Blight ( A. solani) as well as BER, and most importantly to me, as a group do not have such great tastes. Just my opinion.
Carolyn, I agree with your comment regarding plum and early blight. But I have to then wonder- if such a problem how come they have become the defacto standard for canning and making sauce? How can commercial growers hang their hats on a tomato with susceptability to blight and BER (some of my Opalka suffered from this).

*****

Commercial growers spray the heck out of their commercial crops to prevent Early Blight and other fungal diseases. And depending on their growing conditions they too have to put up with BER which is a mutimillion dollar problem in the tomato industry b'c there is no known sure fire way to prevent it.

*****
Is there something about plum tomatoes that make them especially good for sauce?

Not that I know of per the comments of several here including myself.

*****
There are huge companies in Italy making a living on San Marzano- which I consider bland for fresh eating but great when cooked down. Seems like I am missing something here.

****

I don't know if you are or not.

Anyway- I am loving all the comments. Its going to make my decison tough for next year.[/quote]

Just make a list of every variety that everyone has mentioned to you and grow out a few each year to see what suits you best.
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Old August 18, 2007   #22
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i got uncle steve from my great uncle who was born in sicily. i've grown it for over 30 years now. i like it because its good fresh or cooked. the flavor kind of evolves as you're eating it, and lingers in the mouth. a nice tomatoey flavor. not sweet or tart, or acid bite. foilage is pretty much like prue which i'm also growing this year. long wispy floppy branches. you could call them the weeping willows of the tomato world. the largest one that i weighed was about 15 oz. most are smaller than that however. production is good, moderate, but not heavy. it did much better for me growing in the metro detroit area than it does in calumet which is known for copper, snow and hockey. not tomatos.
i think its a good one.

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Old August 18, 2007   #23
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If you limit yourself to plums for sauces you'll be missing a lotta good sauce. We don't find the seeds to affect the flavor, but you could use one of the strainers mentioned earlier. We mix all the varieties together and reduce to the desired volume when making sauces for canning. Grow first for flavor and then make sauce with what you have. You will have good sauce.

Of the plums I've grown, Prue is my favorite, followed by Opalka. Opalka, though, has not been a reliable producer for me and I haven't grown it for the last few years.
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Old August 20, 2007   #24
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Thank you all- time to start thinking.
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Old September 6, 2007   #25
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I am reviving this thread after a lot of thinking from all the good input.

I went through every one's suggestions and narrowed my choices down to about eight varieties.

My filters were based on a couple of important factors. Production has to be top notch in order to can sauce. The second most important factor is time to maturity. I live on long island. It is not a short season but when you start getting past 80-85 days it really becomes a hassle. I'll do the things I need to do to get my few brandywines but I can't do 20 plants of canning tomatos too early and then have to stress about a late frost. Fresh taste is really important because I would like to use these tomatoes as all around types for salsa.

Can anyone help me distingish comparisons between these eight along the attributes listed? I am looking for relative comparisons to each other. I figure I only have room to grow four next year. Any help would be appreciated as I embark on my quest for the perfect paste/plum/oxheart/ etc. allaround tomato.

------------------Days-------Size (oz)--- Taste --seeds--- Production
Joes Plum -------75-85------- 8-12 ----great ---Few ------?
Kaman’s Hung --77-82 ------8-10 -----great ----? ------good
Orange Banana --85 --------4-5 ----great----- ?------ ok
Rosalie’s Paste ---80 -------4-5----- blah ------? -------Great
Speckled Roman --75 -------4-5---- great ------?------ good
Wagner Italian ---70-80---- 2-4------great---- ?------ ?
Sarnowski Polish --???------ 4-6---- good------ ? ------good
Ernie’s Plum -------75-80---- 8-12---- ok------- ?------ Great


Key: blah<OK<good<great
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Old September 6, 2007   #26
korney19
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I'll have to comment more later, I'm out to save seeds now, but I don't completely agree with your filters... and the spelling could just be typos... First rule with Heirlooms is always get the spelling right--they've survived many many years but even so, people still spell some wrong which can lead to confusion with labeling, trading seeds, searching for a variety, etc.

No, I'm not mad WWA!

The filters I think you need to expand more and include Very Good. And I'm not sure where you got blah for Rosalie's, good for Speckled Roman's & Kalman's production, etc. I posted many pics... when I take my pics, I usually have maybe 1 fruit, (sometimes only 1 plant), so if you see a pic with many fruit in it, that generally is an indicator of its production (though a pic with just 1 fruit does not mean it's low production.) So production of ones like Speckled Roman would be Very Good or High... Wagner's you can judge by the pics too. Kalman's said right in the description "Outstanding taste & production" I think. Ernie's Plump the taste is typical/ok/good raw but perhaps great or outstanding as sauce, and production I'd call "extreme."

More when I get back in...
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Old September 6, 2007   #27
where_with_all
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Hello Korney

I thought I spelled everything right but maybe I messed up on a couple. I abreviated some of the names so the table would be alligned right.

As far as filters go I'm happy to include "very good" in between good and great.

You make the statement:
so if you see a pic with many fruit in it, that generally is an indicator of its production (though a pic with just 1 fruit does not mean it's low production.)

Does a pic with two fruit in it mean low production?? In the pics you posted for these tomatoes there were plates with 2 fruit, 3 fruit and lots of fruit. What measurment are your using for low production? Are the two and tree fruit low producers compared to the ones with lots of fruit on the plate? Is Joe's plum much less productive than Wagner or only a little?

With regards to Blah- this is my attempt to call it like it is relative to the other tomatos. The blah lable is only in reference to the other tomatoes. I hate tomato descriptions that never say anything bad. For once I would love to get an answer--Like this tomato tastes like cardboard when compared to Joe's plum, or this tomato produces only 1lbs per plant or you get the drift.

Within the context of these eight tomato's there absolutely must be a best producer and worst producer (under the same growing conditions). There also must be a best tasting and worst tatsting under the same growing and taste bud (or as you prefer smell) conditions. --its just life. We can't all be 10's and we can't all be 1's. A room full of geniuses will have a smartest person and a... well you get the picture.
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Old September 6, 2007   #28
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Generally, if it's not a determinate, a pic with 2 fruit means better production than a pic with 1 fruit... unless I ate the 2nd one and it couldn't be present.
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Old September 6, 2007   #29
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I just edited my above post with a really long reply and tried going "advanced" and lost everything... more when I can--I have #'s but they are hard to put here in column format.. like (437) 2oz fruits/plant, 49.9lbs/plant for Ten Fingers of Naples, (96) 8oz fruits from an Ernie's Plump plant, 268 3oz San Marzanos, (99) 5.5oz Bisignano #2, etc... all were from a study done on 100 heirloom tomatoes--some well known, some obscure...lbs/plant, fruit/plant, brix, pH, etc... Too bad you can't come to the Buffalo-Niagara Tastefest Party this Saturday--I sometimes sell seeds on ebay in the spring but will probably be giving away 50-100 packs for free Saturday...
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Old September 7, 2007   #30
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Mark,

I am eager to see your thoughts? Its ashame we can't send attachments. Judging from your comment, ernies plump rules in terms of production.

Anyway-- driving 10 hrs to buffalo is not an option for me this weekend. Kids soccer, wife, chores, and work, etc.

I would love to do a taste test here on long island one day- There are lots of posters here and on the old site from the area.

Also send me your ebay store link. after i figure out what i want i'll buy the seed you.

thanks

WWA
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