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Old April 6, 2016   #31
MissS
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Ron thanks for the update they are looking good. My observations:

#1 I would pull up a bit so that the soil is not so close to the growing leaf node. It just seems to be planted a bit too deep.

#3 I agree that it appears unbalanced. Go right ahead and remove the lower leaf.

#4 May also need the lowest leaf removed. Use your good judgement.

The cuttings appear to be doing well and not overly stressed. They are orientating themselves towards the light. If they seem happy, then I would leave the light where you have it for now. Lower the light in 5-7 days and see what happens. If they wilt, then back the light up a bit.

You are doing well so far. Let's hope that you get a few to work. It is much harder to root new plants this late in the season. You usually want to do this while the plants are in active growth not slowing down. (For those reading this Ron is in Australia where it is quite late in the season). Next time try this in February or before and it will be MUCH easier.

As far as the watering, go light. Keep it moist but not wet. You do not want the plants to dry out, yet you want the plant to put out roots in search of water. Soggy is asking for disease to set in. Moist and damp is what you want. Perhaps use a spray bottle to water. My concern is the wetting agent keeping it too moist. Find a way to make it work for you.

If you see any brown spots on the leaves, remove them. Keep some humidity going in your chamber but not so much as to grow molds and fungus. I still am concerned that these scions might have come from plants with disease. It is quite likely in fact, due to the lateness of your growing season. I would start to treat your new plants soon to prevent disease. (Marsha in another thread had some good advise).

As soon as you notice some new growth then it is time to begin using a dilute fertilizer on them and giving them some direct light.

Enjoy!
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Old April 10, 2016   #32
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Hi MissS...I am back..Just some photos ....First the good ..Photo CC are the 5 laterals I was able to get April 6th and planted same day ..To my eye they are looking good after 5 days...no sign of withering...Photo AA ..I was unsure about keeping humidity in the chamber ..I wonder if you meant me to put a plastic over the whole incubator itself..I put a plastic cover over some other laterals for 3 days and I saw withering so I removed it ..they have since revived...Now to the bad and ugly....all three were planted on March 31st ...The Bad = Photo FF I think is a Tasty Tom and looked good but I see some lightness appearing on the leaves...i hope it shows in the photo....Now for the Ugly..Photo DD a tasty tom that has never taken off ????...and finally Photo EE ..the early Lateral found in my side room that grew great roots and clearly should have been planted then instead of being kept longer in a water/seasol mix as I think the stem may have rotted ....its extremely weak...

Looking at what has happened I question whether its wise to trim off basicly all the leaves like I did to Photo DD ...

Overall things are looking good.... The Laterals planted April 6th I presume will soon need some special treatment like a weak fertilizer....The nearby Gardening centre has a number of Growth and rooting homones so I should have bought one of them ..Of course its too late now but I wondered whether these will need a light copper spray at some stage ...just as a preventative measure....Now I have forgotten to mention that the laterals were put in two different soils....The march 31st were put in a Tomato Mix and the April 6th were put in the Black Magic soil which is more of a seed raising soil but in my opinion looking at results so far seems to be doing the job ...Regards Ron

PS..Just a small reminder I am from New Zealand ..still "down under" but as yet not a State of Australia...
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Old April 12, 2016   #33
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They are looking pretty good there Ron. I think that it is time to feed them a 1/2 the recommended strength of fertilizer. You may also treat them with a fungicide and lower your light a bit. Be sure that they are getting 16 hours of light per day. Be sure to keep checking them for insects (aphids and white flies) which may have been brought in with them.

It is too bad about DD and EE. I thought that since EE was out of the water that you were going to pot it up. I am sorry but it is time to dispose of them. DD was always one of your weakest cuttings. It did not have much stem so I do not know if the amount of leaves mattered at all or not. In fact, your whole first group of cuttings was iffy just due to the fact that they were already 11 days old and had no roots when you potted them up. How are the rest of that group doing?

You need not transplant these for a couple of weeks or at least until they make some good growth.

Thank you for the gentle reminder! I will try to keep your correct location in my brain.
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Old April 13, 2016   #34
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MissS..Re fertilizer..I have Seasol which is a Seaweed extract and I have the Supercrop Tomato food (Picture on Page Two ) or I can buy another but I feel its crucial to get this right then there is the fungicide..do you mean a copper spray ?? again I feel this is crucial ..if you could advise please........A lady gave me some Black Tula laterals which I planted also and seem to be alright so far...
last night I lowered the lights level with the top of the freezer shell....I do not think this will do any harm ...they are probably feeding a gentle heat into the freezer (I do have ceramic Heat bulbs in the freezer under the trays and they can be switched on at any time and I can run them through a thermostat temperature control..)
I recall my seedlings back in November after propagation were put in pottles and the lights were lowered til they were nearly touching the leaf tops and they flourished but of course I am not lowering to that extent on the cuttings....it is getting cooler at night and these plants will never be going outside ..I will have a larger freezer soon ready to put in my front room and thats where most will be put and grow .....

Yes DD and EE ..both stems would fall over if I breathed on them ..well I only learn via failures and I made bad mistakes on both..as long as I have a good idea what I did wrong....the other laterals in the 31st March tray look pretty good but I will take them outside and photograph to see if it shows up the colouring on the leaves ....I even marked them wrong but I think I can identify them by the photographs.. In photo #4 the end leaf was broken off and just hanging so I completely removed it....

I feel its now a case (as you do) of feeding them with appropriate fertilizer......It may well be that one of these cuttings will provide the laterals for the next seasons crop? Regards Ron
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Old April 14, 2016   #35
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Hi....MissS...I have what I think may be a failure ..Its looking very wilted in the leaves and the only thing I can think of is that it may need a light fertilizer to save it .. and I have just realised that I can put a small plastic bag over each pottle which may help the humidity.. I can send a better photo tomrrow in the daytime when I take it out of the tray ...its night here .... Regards Ron
PS.. I think I can see some yellowing of leaves but its hard too tell underlights...
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Old April 14, 2016   #36
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Ron I would use the Seasol to start with. Start with half strength and then just use it once a week until there is good growth. Once they start to flourish then begin using the product as directed and you could also then begin to rotate between your 2 products. Does your Supercrop Tomato food show the percentages of the ingredients? I see no evidence of any phosphorous on your label and I see that nitrate of potash is the first ingredient. If it does not show the percentages, I would purchase another well balance fertilizer. Even just a 10-10-10 with micro nutrients would do the job. I'm sorry but I do not know what products are available to you there. I would treat your plants for fungus just as ginger 2778 has advised you in your "Down Under Disease" thread. She is great at treating diseases for tomatoes and I value her opinions. At some point you should also look up "bleach spray". It is not something that you need now, but after seeing the pictures of your greenhouse it is certainly worth your investigation. I have never used it but it may be quite valuable for you in the future.
A bag over each plant would work but it seems that they are doing fine. My concern is that winter is upon you (dryer air) and the lowering of the lights will cause further drying of the air. Perhaps you are close enough to the ocean to have ample humidity in your air. Do you turn your indoor heat on often? You might even just wish to place a few bowls of water in your grow box as your relative humidity drops until they get roots (which hopefully are developing now) the air needs to be moist.
All that you can do is hope that your weak one will pull through and it just might. Give it a few more days to see if it will rebound. These plants have a will to survive as evidenced by your plants from the 31st which look much better than I had expected them too.
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Old April 14, 2016   #37
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MissS..I have rung one Garden centre and they have limited additives in stock at this time of the year ..They do have Tom-a-Rite which I already have so I photographed it along with two of my cuttings ...One the leaves have wilted but the stem looks alright...The other one which I admit always looked the strongest of my cuttings has a lower branch where the leaves are a definate yellow=green and this can be seen....Now I also pulled up slightly???carefully on the mainstem ...there was an initial small upward movement but then it stopped and it was evident to me that something was holding it and which I presume is root growth....

So they are approaching 10 days in their containers..

Now I still have a lot to learn and this has always bugged me inside and outside...When I water with additives once every so many days as per the instructions ....I have always presumed that in the inbetween days I just water with water??

In my thirst for knowledge I came across a YouTube video of a commercial operation in North Carolina and was amazed to see that they grew their Tomatoes in a slab of Coconut Fibre ...Amazing ....the slab had little depth so I presume the roots grew side ways ....I also came across a video where a gentleman actually put a clear soda bottle (cut length wise) and the bottom cut out (to the top)...around a well formed lateral ....taped the slot together with cotton balls round where the spout was and just put soil in the bottle ....some water and 2 weeks later one could see the roots system....He then cut off the lateral ..removed if from the bottle and planted it...
I thought that was great....So simple and the lateral was growing roots while sustained by the parent plant.....

Now I do live close to the sea..Most New Zealanders do ...My seed Propagator has a clear plastic lid and forms a lot of moisture on it when I do my seeds So I presume this indicates that I could get similar results by putting a small plastic bag over each cutting pot....
Regards Ron
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Old April 14, 2016   #38
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Ron your Tom A Rite looks to be fine to use. Start using it a 1/2 strength. I would apply it using a bottom watering method so that you do not over-water your plants and I would rotate with your seaweed product. Remember to keep the soil just moist to the touch and not overly wet. I know that it says to use it as a foliage feed, please do not do that. I never spray my plants leaves unless I have to. Wet leaves just leads to fungal infections. Even when your plants are large, avoid getting the leaves wet when you water or feed.

Yes the bag over the plants will help to aid in humidity. But your plants are doing well without it and too much humidity leads to disease. Just watch and see if with the lights lowered if the plants develop some brown, dry edges. If they do then the bags over them would help provided that they are not touching the plant at all. Once your plants have roots, their is no need for a bag over them.

Regards, Patti

Yes, you water your plants normally with just plain water when they need it between feedings.

YouTube is a wealth of information. Some good and some not so. Most likely the plants that you saw in the coconut fiber were being grown hydroponically. Plants grown like that require less growing medium but need more constant attention. The soda bottle method is called air layering. Instead of a bottle, I use plastic bags around the laterals. It works very well.

Your first cutting is still looking good. The plant has chosen not to grow the lower leaf, so just remove it now. It still is not making any active growth so just keep doing what you have been doing. It sounds as if this plant is producing some roots for you. Congratulations!

Your second start that you are showing does not look so good. The leaf on the right is dying. The left side looks as if it may as well. It is hard for me to tell, but is this plant too wet? If it is maybe try gently taking it out and placing it in a dryer medium if the stem has not rotten below the soil line. I will let you be the judge as to if it is too wet. As I said before, I do not like moisture control potting medium. I do not get good results with it. While many people love it, I am one of those that just can not figure it out.
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Old April 14, 2016   #39
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Patti...Thank goodness Tom- A -Rite is ok ..I have biked around two garden centres and the problem is I cannot read the print on most products even with 5.0 glasses on and to be honest the people in these places are so negative IE their prospective is come back in August Sept when we may have a plant in...So I have Tom a Rite and Seasol to use... I will cut the yellow leaf off ..the other one is so lifeless I feel all I can do is feed it a small amount of fertilizer and hope for the best..In the March 32st tray I still have two Tasty Tom laterals that still look alright so thats 16 days ..I will also feed them with Tom-a-rite ......We do have Miricle Gro here (I think made under License) ....I see it mentioned in a lot of writings.....

I would say another week and I will know where I am at... I have 6 1/2 Tasty Tom laterals and to get 2 -3 growing into plants would be for me a huge success ...Regards Ron

PS to mix up 500ml of Tom - a - Rite at 1/2 strength i would require 1.7 - 2ml ??? Maybe I should mix up a litre and forget what I think will be leftover..then theirs the UK v US Teaspoon ...I would presume we are using UK measurements just like the English language EG Colour as against color..I do have a plastic measuring teaspoon and it may be 1/2 a teaspoon size...NO I have found it and its 1/4 of a teaspoon so back to google to see how many ml in a 1/4 of a tespoon..

Got it ..I find a jar and mark it at 400ml of water then add 1/4 teasoon of Fertilizer which gives me a 1/2 strength mix ....

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Old April 15, 2016   #40
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Patti..I failed to ask? you say "I use Plastic Bags round the Laterals" ..I am trying to visualise this ...is there soil in the bags.?? ....I must Google and see what comes up.... I regret not playing round with gardening 20 -30 years ago but it has given me a real interest late in life although this season sadly nothing tastes right ....The cuttings have all had a 1/2 strength mix ture of Tom-a= lite..I hope they like it....
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Old April 15, 2016   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murihikukid View Post
Patti..I failed to ask? you say "I use Plastic Bags round the Laterals" ..I am trying to visualise this ...is there soil in the bags.?? ....I must Google and see what comes up.... I regret not playing round with gardening 20 -30 years ago but it has given me a real interest late in life although this season sadly nothing tastes right ....The cuttings have all had a 1/2 strength mix ture of Tom-a= lite..I hope they like it....
You could use soil in the bags, but I use moist moss. I don't necessarily use a bag but rather just plastic wrapped around a branch and secured with a twist-ties on either end. First I wrap wet moss around the branch that I am going to use, and then wrap the plastic around that and fasten. It is lighter than using soil so that the branch does not need as much support.

Another very easy way to to air-layer is to just take a low branch and lay it down on the soil surface. You could cover the branch with soil or use something to hold it down on the soil such as a rock or large garden staple, until the branch roots. You cut it off when the branch has some roots and pot it up.
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Old April 15, 2016   #42
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Patti ..I finally found ginger 2778.comments...Now it seems like I am doing a lot of posta and I apolagise for this but I just do not want to make any mistakes cause I still think the cuttings are very fragile and I wonder if its the lights.....as they always look better in the morning after having their sleep.....

So Copper Sray ..Could you please find time to check this out per photos....Regards Ron
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Old April 16, 2016   #43
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Patti....I am concerned with the lights so I switched 6 tubes off ...they are on 3 different switches and now only two tubes are on..My problem is when I switched the lighting off round 1am this morning I did not like the look of the leaves ...round 10am this morning .I checked them and I thought they looked a lot better IE the leaves looked a lot more alive in colour and strength so I put the lights back on .. now its just after 4pm I rechecked them and to me they have gone backwards again ..I am wondering whether its heat related....although with Floro Tubes there is not that much heat...and the tubes are 300mm above the plant height...
But ...I am now sure that I am right ...these cuttings seem to weaken under lights particularly in the leaves and recover overrnight when the lighting is off....

With the light reflection within the freezer I presume there is also a temperature build up and I will buy a thermometer to hang in the freezer and take readings...

In the 31st March tray there is a plant which is looking good but it was not a lateral but a part of a broken plant....I cannot even remember what it is (maybe a Lisa King..) Unlike the laterals Its handling the Floro tubes with no problems ....

I wonder if you have any comment ....I do have a board that has about eight light fittings
.for CFL bulbs and they may be better than the Tubes......Regards Ron
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Old April 16, 2016   #44
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Cuttings have difficulty photosynthesizing because there are no roots. That is why we keep them out of direct sunlight until they have a root system. The reasons that I want yours under lights is twofold. First, due to the age of your first cuttings. They were 11 days old and needed to make some nutrients to survive, so some light was needed but not too much. The second reason is because it is fast approaching winter there and your plants are shutting down their growth for the season. You are in your shortening day cycle. You need to supply your cuttings with longer day light hours to re-program them into a growth phase. You want them to think that it is Spring and time to grow rather than continue in the Fall pattern of shutting down.

If your plants are struggling with the lights lowered, then you could raise your lights back up or do as you did and reduce the number of bulbs being used. It sounds as if you are getting in tune with your plants needs and are quite observant. This is a good thing! Keep up your good keen eye and try using the stronger lights again in 3 days. You do not want to have gone through all of this and then loose the plants due to lack of light.

I too look much better after a night of sleep. So if your plants are just a little tired after a long day of adjusting and trying to produce some roots, it's OK. They will look better in the morning and will be ready to go to work again. A funny thing is that your plants will also be making most of their growth during the nights while they are sleeping.

At this point I have no comment on the types of bulbs that you are using both of them are fine, but perhaps someone else reading this will have an opinion.

Your Yates Liquid Copper seems to be perfect. Go ahead and start to use it.

Have a good day ~ Patti
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Old April 16, 2016   #45
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Patti...This afternoon I switched two ceramic bulbs on underneath the trays but my fear was that there could be too much heat so I switched them off ..Tomorrow I will try and control them through a thermostat control unit ..at least they will have some heat underneath..as well I will raise my lights and put at least 1/2 them back on and then hopefully all 8 bulbs ...
In the morning I will spray each plant with the Copper by removing one at a time from the freezer and inspecting / spraying and photographing...I see tonight one of the leaves on an April 6th Lateral has a "black" tip... I am really interested in seeing the results of the copper liquid on the laterals....
Regards Ron
Re CFL bulbs ..I am trying to get Full Spectrum Phillips bulbs .... But I think if you mix two varieties ( warm light and cool daylight) the spectrum will be covered ..

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