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Have a great invention to help with gardening? Are you the self-reliant type that prefers Building It Yourself vs. buying it? Share and discuss your ideas and projects with other members.

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Old November 30, 2008   #16
amideutch
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Ray, as long as you emphasize the need to overfill the wicking basket with the potting mix to ensure contact with the fabric in the instructions, that should be enough. As the fabric is a new addition or player the newbees may not understand the importance.
Questions, how many EarthTainers could you comfortably place on an acre parcel. Given a commercial hybrid tomato variety how many pounds of fruit do you think a tainer with two plants could produce per crop? I think you know where I'm going with this. Thanks and your doing a super job Ray!
Ami
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Old November 30, 2008   #17
dice
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I will be interested to see what the bottom of the platform looks
like after a full growing season with the landscape fabric.
(I wonder if several layers of newspaper would work.)
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Old November 30, 2008   #18
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Thanks Ami.

dice, I am concerned that the aggressive root system will penetrate the newspaper with the roots growing down into the water reservoir.

Yes, this is "trail and error" experimenting with various elements of the design, but I am trying to develop a system whereby I can get a 3 year life cycle out of the 'Tainer before complete disassembly and refilling. My plan is to refresh the 'Tainer each season with one-third new potting mix to have the growing medium be reasonably consistent in wicking properties over 3 year terms.

I am also keeping most of the 'Tainers in year-around growing operation (onions, snow peas, carrots, etc) over the Fall / Winter here in Northern California, so these guys are earning their keep.

Ray
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Old December 1, 2008   #19
dice
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Quote:
I am trying to develop a system whereby I can get a 3 year life cycle out of the 'Tainer....
Ah. The newspaper would likely only last one season, regardless
of whether it effectively resisted root penetration the first
season.

(I have used several layers of it to repress turf under a new
raised bed, which it did well. The only turf that grew back was
at the edges outside the walls of the raised bed. This is the
same turf that routinely penetrates landscape fabric that I
have used around shrubs. But when I put a shovel in the
raised bed that deep the next spring, all traces of the
newspaper layer were gone, broken down into unrecognizable
bits of organic matter by bacteria, fungi, and earthworms.)
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Old December 2, 2008   #20
Moonglow
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This is not only very informative, but also quite interesting. I especially like the landscape fabric feature.

Thank you.
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Old December 2, 2008   #21
rnewste
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Moonglow,

While I didn't want to add the extra step (and cost) of the landscape fabric, that is the only way that I could "throttle-back" the aggressive root migration through all the aeration holes and wicking basket into the water reservoir.



This containment will make Fall clean-out of the root ball easier as well.

Ray
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Old December 2, 2008   #22
Moonglow
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Ray, this is my first season growing tomatoes and I grow them in Square Foot Success Kits (Gardener's) and I also have one EB. I'm curious to see the roots of my tomatoes when it's clean-up time.

Awesome Haiti program. I did notice a "Balikbayan Box" in one of your photos. Do you have Philippine ties? I sent some seeds to friends and (I am) urging them to grow a tomato plant or two. Imagine each household with a tomato plant: food on the table and better air quality!

Anyhow, thank you again for sharing this valuable info.
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Old December 2, 2008   #23
rnewste
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"I did notice a "Balikbayan Box" in one of your photos. Do you have Philippine ties?"

Moonglow,
You have a very good eye!

Actually, my daughter-in-law's parents are from Bulacan. Son is becoming proficient in the Tagalog language to communicate with her in-laws there.



Ray
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Old December 3, 2008   #24
Wi-sunflower
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There was a brief mention of lining the basket with fabric too.

I think if you used a large enough square of fabric so that you had a couple of inches extending around the top of the basket, that would do 2 things.

1 As mentioned in an earlier post, it would keep the fines from washing out of the wicking basket.

2 If there is an inch or 2 of fabric all around the top of the basket but laying to the outside, when you lay the full fabric over the top it will provide a secondary wicking contact.

It would add a bit to the cost as you would need a bit more fabric, but might make the wicking more sure.

To measure how big the square would need to be, run a string down 1 side, across the bottom and up the other side. The length of the string plus your overlap is the length of the side of the square. I usually add a bit more to the measurement to account for "bunching". Yes there will be some folding and bunching up as you push the fabric down in the basket, but it should work.

Just something to think about.
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Old December 7, 2008   #25
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Beautiful family, Ray. That's very impressive, your son learning the dialect. My late maternal grandmother is also from Bulacan .

Perhaps there will be a similar ETII program in the Philippines. Tomatoes are very much part of the Filipino diet. "One Planter at a Time" can do a lot of good to one family (that's what I say/dream at least). Fortunately, there are seedling banks now (there). I just do not know if local governments take advantage of it.
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Old December 9, 2008   #26
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I have been away for a while so forgive me if this is a silly question.
I have several homemade earthbox types and have not bothered to restrict the roots from growing down into the water chamber. My tomatoes grow well and produce well , and at the end of the season the water chamber is full of roots.
Question is why is this bad.
I have a couple of toms growing in a bought hydroponic system and they have mats in the bottom of the pots to stop the roots, but I think this is so they dont clog up the valve that sits in the nutrient resevoir.
Or is it bad to have tomatoes with their roots constantly in water?
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Old December 9, 2008   #27
dice
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[Why keep roots out of water reservoir]
It is not necessarily going to affect the plant negatively,
it is just that there is more risk of root disease in an anaerobic
environment than in a rooting medium with plenty of air space.
(Hydroponic setups may be different because of the fairly
constant movement of the water.)

A study I read on biocontrols for fusarium attacking geraniums
in greenhouses found (just by accident, not really what they
were looking for) that disease incidence was consistently
reduced in the container mix that had the most large pore
air space (they were using multiple commercial container
mixes), across all of the different biocontrols that they
tried as well as the uninoculated control plants.

(The reservoir in the bottom of a self-watering container is
rather severely lacking in large pore air space.)

Edit:
Some plants, bog plants and the like, would not care at all about
having roots in the water reservoir, that is their natural, hereditary
condition. That is perhaps not the case for tomatoes, though,
given how much trouble growers have with diseases that thrive
in wet soils and commonly infect the plant through damaged roots.
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Last edited by dice; December 9, 2008 at 05:34 AM. Reason: addenda
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Old December 9, 2008   #28
rnewste
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Mantis,

Note: I just continue to be amazed by the collective knowledge of folks on this Forum (dice, and many others).

Now for my answer to your question of not wanting the roots to grow through the aeration bench and wicking basket - -

I AM JUST PLAIN LAZY!!!

My goal is to not have to take each EarthTainer apart every season and clean out all the roots out of the water reservoir, but to get a 3 year life cycle before having to do this time consuming operation.

My hope is that the landscape fabric will contain the root ball entirely above the aeration bench and wicking basket so I will be able to simply yank the old tomato plant out with the majority of the roots attached, then trowel in one cubic foot of replacement potting mix for the next season.

So that is my (un)scientific answer, Mantis - - although I will unabashedly lay claim to: "What dice said...."

Ray
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Old December 9, 2008   #29
Mantis
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Thanks Dice and Ray
I sort of thought that might be the case Ray. My boxes are much smaller than yours, so taking them apart at the end of the season is not hard.
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Old December 9, 2008   #30
rnewste
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Mantis,

The "beauty" of the EarthTainer is its integrated tomato cage system:



The "curse" of the EarthTainer is its integrated.......

So, disassembly of the system is more complex and time consuming - - hence my design goal of having to do that not after each season, but to get 3 years use before a complete disassembly is required.

Only time will tell if the landscape fabric treatment will minimize the root migration into the water reservoir. Isn't "science" fun??

Ray
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