The Huge, Glaring Problem With Determinates!

[Nan_PA_6b]

Thank you, Salt, although my must-try list is too long already. I've read good things about Porter; it's in the spreadsheet. Haven't noticed any plants struggling with the heat here (yet), but the good shelf life, shade & drought tolerance are attractive.

Nan

[MarlynnMarcks]

Originally Posted by oakley

You didn't mention why you are looking for determinate. Or what
you were hoping to find. A big blaster pumping out fruit over a
shorter time frame for sauce?

Yet I suppose the frustrating search is the main reason for the rant.
(information not as clear as expected)

Did not realize Carmello, Glacier, and Sioux were listed as determinate.
I did give them three strikes, three seasons. (Sioux maybe once)
They must be listed as ind or semi most places. I only grow ind.
All three were a disappointment in flavor for us.

In my short growing season every plant pumps out fruit mid August.
So I look for early mid-season, (not early-early-mediocre-just-so-i-have
-a-few)...by 4th of July.
I want good taste, quantity not important. A few like SunGold keep me
satisfied early. Now starting to grow some indoors for a jump start.

Maybe rephrase the question to 'does anyone grow determinates and
have a variety that grows true to form...mid-season, lots of fruit over
a two-three week time frame?'. My neighbor only grows paste for sauce.
No interest in anything but sauce. Thick boil-all-day sauce.

I know, I know,...you just want some clear answers.
I'm not much help,

I grew both Camello and Sioux and they were ind, not determinate. Carmello had a different taste than the usual red tomato but it was good. I also made oodles of tomatoes even in inhospitable ground with minimum sun. Sioux produced all season, too and had excellent sweet flavor.

[Salaam]

I've been wondering the same thing as you, Nan!

My requirements are a short bush plant to grow on my front yard, plus I'd like it to produce for as long as possible. I've grown Bush Champion for two or three years, and it's supposed to be a determinate. It has produced for me all season - from early August till hard frost - early to mid October. It has fulfilled my requirements. But the taste is, well, not that good.

I'm looking for other varieties, but have run into the same problem as you in that it's not clear whether they produce once only or all season. I was thinking of trying Rosella Purple. Anybody with experience growing this?

[FarmerShawn]

Originally Posted by Salaam

I've been wondering the same thing as you, Nan!

My requirements are a short bush plant to grow on my front yard, plus I'd like it to produce for as long as possible. I've grown Bush Champion for two or three years, and it's supposed to be a determinate. It has produced for me all season - from early August till hard frost - early to mid October. It has fulfilled my requirements. But the taste is, well, not that good.

I'm looking for other varieties, but have run into the same problem as you in that it's not clear whether they produce once only or all season. I was thinking of trying Rosella Purple. Anybody with experience growing this?

I would suggest almost any of the dwarf varieties from the Dwarf Project for a plant that would fit your needs. I grow Rosella Purple every year because the flavor is usually outstanding, though production may not be huge. Production is ok, just not overwhelming, but that flavor makes it well worth my garden space.


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[Nan_PA_6b]

Farmer Shawn, do you know if all of the dwarfs in the Dwarf Project are long-bearing?

Nan

Originally Posted by FarmerShawn

I would suggest almost any of the dwarf varieties from the Dwarf Project for a plant that would fit your needs. I grow Rosella Purple every year because the flavor is usually outstanding, though production may not be huge. Production is ok, just not overwhelming, but that flavor makes it well worth my garden space.


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[Black Krim]

Thanks Nan for posting the question. I too have the same question.

My Roma and San Marano came into bearing at the same time, after a long rainy spring became a 2 m drought, and the massive number of fruit pulled over every staked plant. As I remember Roma is det and San m is indeter. Harvested both at the same time , for same length of time.

I would grow both, but will limit myself to the first packet I find.

[Nan_PA_6b]

So both Roma and SM are long-bearing? I'll update my list.

Nan

[Gerardo]

the determinates I've grown produce a 2nd harvest, and in some cases a 3rd. If you feed them aggressively it helps to increase the size of the second wave, you can also ignore size and dry farm the 2nd wave. Helps to improve the flavor on those marginal ones

[Nan_PA_6b]

Wow, Gerardo, that's another confounding variable. BTW, does anyone know how New Big Dwarf produces? Is it a constant production or flush after flush?

Nan

[AlittleSalt]

Gerardo, the same happens here. The best example I have is Bradley. On some sites it is called a Determinate, and other sites call it Semi-Determinate. It grew and produced as you would expect a Semi-DET variety to produce. We were very happy with the taste, but the shelf life was but a few days.

Nan, from my experience, Campari F2 have a very long shelf life. Japanese Pink Cherry also does. Carolyn told me that Japanese Pink Cherry used to be a hybrid. Neither are Determinates, but both produce a lot of tomatoes, and have an even longer shelf life than the Porters I offered seeds for earlier in this thread. I could easily see the Campari F2s being used as a mild sauce or salsa tomato. The Japanese Pink Cherry is like most Pink tomatoes - eat um while you got um. I guess you can tell that my favorite tomatoes are Pink When Ripe.

[Gerardo]

Originally Posted by Salaam

I've been wondering the same thing as you, Nan!

My requirements are a short bush plant to grow on my front yard, plus I'd like it to produce for as long as possible. I've grown Bush Champion for two or three years, and it's supposed to be a determinate. It has produced for me all season - from early August till hard frost - early to mid October. It has fulfilled my requirements. But the taste is, well, not that good.

I'm looking for other varieties, but have run into the same problem as you in that it's not clear whether they produce once only or all season. I was thinking of trying Rosella Purple. Anybody with experience growing this?

Rosella purple shines on the flavor front. Tasmanian Choc, although slightly taller, gets an enthusiastic thumbs up too. Gribovsky works great for me

[AlittleSalt]

Sorry, I got interrupted in r/l on that last post.

I have wondered about New Big Dwarf too. I couldn't grow it myself due to the soil diseases. Did you know that New Big Dwarf comes from the early 1900s?

[KarenO]

Originally Posted by Nan_PA_6b

Wow, Gerardo, that's another confounding variable. BTW, does anyone know how New Big Dwarf produces? Is it a constant production or flush after flush?

Nan

New big dwarf is a dwarf indeterminate. A large dwarf plant about 4 feet tall. I found it great tasting, late mid season. An ancestor of many of the dwarf project tomatoes.

[oakley]

Nan, the dwarf project dwarfs, like most indeterminate, have some early varieties,
mid season, and late. My limited experience, once they get going, continue rather
steady.

dPinkPassion was very early, one of the first, but succumbed to some disease.
dArticRose was not far behind and did well most of the season yet best production was early..
dTennSuited and
dKangarooPawBrown, both excellent in flavor, were both mid-late and steady
producers once the heat let up late August.
dArticRose is a cross between 'Budai Torpe' and 'Black from Tula', listed as a true determinate.
You could probably find pics and development discussions doing a search in the
'Grumpy' archives. 2010 maybe?

I also grew two dozen dwarf hunt, F2's, and F3's. What I like about the dwarfs is
the size. More variety tomatoes in such a small footprint. Self pruning, not bushy.
(except for dArticRose...semi-bushy)
A 25ft run a foot apart in one and 2 gal grow bags. I should note, on my deck, single
row, I had great airflow. I intentionally wanted more variety over big production.
2018 I will scale back quantity, larger pots, and concentrate on a few but more of each
variety. 6-8 Metallica, maybe 2-3 each of the others with great flavor.

Victory Seed supply has a good listing of dwarfs and good descriptions. Easy to
navigate. All in one place.

[zipcode]

Not sure why there's a confusion. All determinates produce fairly concentrated crops, it's just some of them (most) will produce another concentrated crop later (and another one if your season is long enough).