Micro-tomato crosses

[ChrisK]

None of mine are stable yet.

Originally Posted by KarenO

I love the look of dwarf tomatoes and these dwarf cherries must be a big improvement over tiny Tim in flavour. very cool. what varieties are stable? are they available yet? these look like the perfect greenhouse cherries
KarenO

[KarenO]

well once they are I bet there will be a lot of interest. great work!
KO

[ChrisK]

My problem is I have too many to follow-up on in my limited space!

Originally Posted by KarenO

well once they are I bet there will be a lot of interest. great work!
KO

[ChrisK]

Tasted fruit from the taller dwarf multiflora tonight. Nice and sweet! Will have to find a row for the F3 next year (or find someone else who is serious about a growout).

The F2 plant is really nice and absolutely loaded with flowers even though it's getting munched pretty badly by the NC pests!

[Darren Abbey]

This year I've been growing out a set of F2s from the micro tomato "Tiny Tim" (TT) crossed to a patio-type tomato "Roma" (R). This was a bee-cross, but it aligned with my motivation, much like others', to generate some more diverse micro-tomato types.

The first micro to turn up is indeterminate with reduced side-branches and elongated heart-shape fruit (that are roughly twice that in TT). (Photo 1) Because the plant is indeterminate, I'm going to see if I can keep it growing inside over winter.

Enhanced yellow in fruit gel (like TT) was seen in ~1/4 of F2 progeny, but not in the F1, so this appears to be a recessive trait. I found the progeny with more yellow in the gel tasted better than those without, so it will be something I select on when I grow out further F2s.

Minor anthocyanin production on fruit shoulder when sun exposed is seen in most of the F2 progeny and was noted in the F1, so this appears to be a dominant trait. That the anthocyanin expression comes in two levels suggests the trait shows a co-dominant expression, where two copies of the allele result in darker pigment than one. (Photo 2; low, med, & high levels.) After noting this, I re-examined TT and found it also showed limited anthocyanin production on the shoulders, which is mostly obscured by the small size of the fruit.

Anthocyanin production was also noted on the fruit calyx. It seems to be distinct from that on the fruit, but shows the same co-dominant expression pattern. (Photo 2; high, low, & med levels.)

I'm curious how these traits would interact with the anthocyanin genes (Af and atv) found in "Indigo Rose", "P20", and other blue lines derived from them. The simplest scenario would be that the fruit-shoulder and calyx anthocyanin traits are due to weaker allele of the Af and atv genes..

[ChrisK]

Bumping this thread up. Who's doing what this winter, if anything, on the micros?

I am going to drop some seeds of the micro multiflora (Now at F3) and maybe some micro grape I've been working on (now at F5).

I sooo wish I had the greenhouse I built when I was a teen.


Edit:

Here's a pic of one inflorescence from the dwarf multiflora. I put it in the ground a couple of weeks ago. The plant is just over waist high.

[Darren Abbey]

With school obligations, I haven't been able to grow out more of my micro cross (Tiny Tim x Roma) F2s than the 10 I started in spring.

I got one micro plant out of the bunch which had elongated fruit, but the flavor profile wasn't what I wanted. It actually had a flavor that reminded me and my gf of bananas, of all things. I have a photo of the plant and fruit at: http://the-biologist-is-in.blogspot....-tomatoes.html

These F2s have turned out to be interesting for some unexpected anthocyanin pigment traits and a high-yellow-pigment trait that seems to be associated with the tomato flavor I prefer, so I expect to be growing out quite a few more to look for rare combinations of alleles.

… and now I just noted that I already responded in this conversation with this result. sorry.

[dfollett]

I am not new to tomatoes, but am new to crossing and to micro-tomatoes. I made a few crosses in the garden this summer and am going to grow out several F1s inside this winter to have a jump on next summer. I would love to try some. I should have room for quite a few 6-8" pots. I'd be happy to report back results and return seed for anything that you have interest in. If interested, I'll send SASE for seed if needed.

[Darren Abbey]

dfollett: What crosses did you do?

[heirloomtomaguy]

I can grow out a couple a few plants through the winter if you are willing to share some of the seed.

[dfollett]

I did nothing with micro-tomatoes. I crossed some last winter and grew out F1s this summer:

Pink Berkeley Tye-Dye X Black Early - grew out F1s this summer and have lots of F2 seed (large purple ribbed beefsteak - Excellent flavor)
Black early X Pink Berkeley Tye-Dye - grew out F1s this summer and have lots of F2 seed (large purple ribbed beefsteak - Excellent flavor)
Hugh's Black X Azoychka - grew out F1s this summer and have lots of F2 seed (medium, round red with exceptional flavor)

I crossed these this summer (I used PL as the female with RL pollen donor so I would know at the seedling stage if the cross took - These all did):

Brandywine Cowlick's X Margaret Curtain - Growing F1s out now
BKX X Margaret Curtain - Growing F1s out now
Pink Pioneer X Margaret Curtain - Growing F1s out now
BKX X Seek No Further Love Apple - Growing F1s out now
Black Sea Man X SNFLA - Growing F1s out now
Pink Pioneer X SNFLA - Growing F1s out now

I don't have near enough room to do all of those crosses justice if there is any potential in any of them. I'd be more than happy to share seed if anyone had interest and would be willing to send back seed of anything that looked promising or interesting.

I've enjoyed what little I've done and learned working with these and reading. I am very intrigued by the micros and would love to help with the grow-outs if you could use some help.

[heirloomtomaguy]

Originally Posted by dfollett

I did nothing with micro-tomatoes. I crossed some last winter and grew out F1s this summer:

Pink Berkeley Tye-Dye X Black Early - grew out F1s this summer and have lots of F2 seed (large purple ribbed beefsteak - Excellent flavor)
Black early X Pink Berkeley Tye-Dye - grew out F1s this summer and have lots of F2 seed (large purple ribbed beefsteak - Excellent flavor)
Hugh's Black X Azoychka - grew out F1s this summer and have lots of F2 seed (medium, round red with exceptional flavor)

I crossed these this summer (I used PL as the female with RL pollen donor so I would know at the seedling stage if the cross took - These all did):

Brandywine Cowlick's X Margaret Curtain - Growing F1s out now
BKX X Margaret Curtain - Growing F1s out now
Pink Pioneer X Margaret Curtain - Growing F1s out now
BKX X Seek No Further Love Apple - Growing F1s out now
Black Sea Man X SNFLA - Growing F1s out now
Pink Pioneer X SNFLA - Growing F1s out now

I don't have near enough room to do all of those crosses justice if there is any potential in any of them. I'd be more than happy to share seed if anyone had interest and would be willing to send back seed of anything that looked promising or interesting.

I've enjoyed what little I've done and learned working with these and reading. I am very intrigued by the micros and would love to help with the grow-outs if you could use some help.

I will also make room for your crosses and would be more than happy to report back and send back promising seed. I will send pm with my address.

[dfollett]

Just what is a Micro?

Two weeks ago, before I read this thread, I would have tossed this one plant out. I have grown lots of dwarfs – every variety from the Dwarf Project that has been released and several that have not yet been released. I think I understand what they are. Two weeks ago, these plants were the same size, and yet they both still look healthy. They are from the same parent.

I did germination tests of the seeds I saved this year. Two weeks ago, I potted up several from among the most vigorous of those seedlings so I would have some to grow through the winter. I've noticed that one did not seem to be keeping up, but haven’t paid much attention until today. Today I looked them over closely. Two weeks ago, the two pictured below were the two best seedlings from a group of 10-15 seeds planted. There couldn't have been much difference between them, because I only potted up 10 from at least 150 seeds I tested and only used the healthiest. I have another 8 potted and they are nearly identical to the larger of the two. The third and fourth photos are the same plants from above to show detail of the leaf structure. The last two photos are of fruit from the parent plant.

I have never seen a seedling stay so small and still look so healthy. It is actually slightly darker and richer in color than others. They are the same variety. They are from an F5 of an unstable variety from the Beauty line of the Dwarf Project that is still being worked. The parent of these had what I thought was the best color and best flavor of everything I grew this year.

Could this be a micro? Like I said, two weeks ago, I wouldn't have looked closely at it and would have tossed it. I am certainly going to plant it in a small pot and see what it turns into.

[ChrisK]

Can't hurt to keep it and see!

[Darren Abbey]

The definition I have of a "micro" is that it has two distinct dwarfing traits, different genes.

dfollet: It is definitely possible that your little plant would fit into this definition.

Now… if this is the case and you crossed that micro into the micro lines I've got… I know the dwarves have one dwarfing trait in common with my micros, so you might have three distinct dwarfing genes. "Nano" tomatoes anyone?