Germination times - Tomatoe varieties

ScottinAtlanta · January 3, 2012

I planted 14 varieties of tomato seeds on Dec 30. I used the method in the great "dense sowing" thread posted in this Forum, but with only 2-3 seeds per cell. I used Miracle Gro Potting Mix, and a 72 cell tray with a plastic top, sitting on old heating pads set to medium. Air temp was around 50 degrees.

Here are the % germinated on hour 80. Sungold Yellow Cherry is the big winner, with 75% germinated.

Prue: 0%
Green Zebra: 0%
Aunt Molly's Ground Cherry: 0%
Cherokee Purple: 25%
Black Krim: 50%
Red Zebra: 0%
Black from Tula: 0%
Bradley: 33%
Lime Green: 0%
Aunt Ruby German Green: 0%
Cherokee Green: 0%
Sungold Select: 20%
Sungold Yellow Cherry: 75%

**carolyn137** · January 3, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

I planted 14 varieties of tomato seeds on Dec 30. I used the method in the great "dense sowing" thread posted in this Forum, but with only 2-3 seeds per cell. I used Miracle Gro Potting Mix, and a 72 cell tray with a plastic top, sitting on old heating pads set to medium. Air temp was around 50 degrees.

Here are the % germinated on hour 80. Sungold Yellow Cherry is the big winner, with 75% germinated.

Prue: 0%
Green Zebra: 0%
Aunt Molly's Ground Cherry: 0%
Cherokee Purple: 25%
Black Krim: 50%
Red Zebra: 0%
Black from Tula: 0%
Bradley: 33%
Lime Green: 0%
Aunt Ruby German Green: 0%
Cherokee Green: 0%
Sungold Select: 20%
Sungold Yellow Cherry: 75%

Scott, do you know the seed age of each variety you sowed seeds for? IF the pack had the packed by date on it that doesn't tell you when the seeds were produced, just when the seeds were packed.

Or perhaps you traded for some of those seeds and if so if the trader didn't indicate the seed age I think that's a problem.

At this point since all your seeds were given the same conditions I do think that the differences may indicate seed age differences.

ScottinAtlanta · January 3, 2012

Carolyn, The seeds were purchased from four different sellers. None of the sellers stated age, but 3 of them stated "packaged for" 2011 or 2012. When all have germinated, I will post average germination times per vendor, if I think that is fair.

Tania · January 3, 2012

Seed age is not the only variable - the degree of seed dryness could be a factor too.

I carefully document germination rates of all different seeds, both mine and acquired, and at times I get surprised to see 2001 seeds sprouting in just 8 days when newer seeds taking up to 12 days (under the same condition in my cold laundry room with 12 hrs bottom heat). Just had this happening this week when I was starting some seeds, had 83%, 87% and 90% germination with my 2003 seed and 50% with someone's else 2001 seed, but only 33% for my 2005 seed and 0% for someone's else 2005 seeds after 8 days. This is when some 2006 acquired seeds has not even sprouted yet.

Sometimes I also get different germination rates when I test at different times - i.e., I test a seed batch and mark it 'low germination', then an year later I use it to plant my own seedlings and it shows much better germination. Go figure!

Scott, if you got some seeds from me, you should be able to look up the year I grew them, it is available at both online seed catalog and at Tomatobase (under B.C KO T).

Tatiana

**nctomatoman** · January 3, 2012

So many variables - seed age of course, time seed was fermented (number of days) and conditions, seed dryness, how seed was stored, exact planting seed depth, placement in relation to hot spots on the heat mat - I always see minor variations in germination time....

**carolyn137** · January 3, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

Carolyn, The seeds were purchased from four different sellers. None of the sellers stated age, but 3 of them stated "packaged for" 2011 or 2012. When all have germinated, I will post average germination times per vendor, if I think that is fair.

Scott, unless several of the perhaps low germinating seeds turn out to be from one vendor, I do think it's better to just list the final germination of each variety.

Your call.

**carolyn137** · January 3, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

So many variables - seed age of course, time seed was fermented (number of days) and conditions, seed dryness, how seed was stored, exact planting seed depth, placement in relation to hot spots on the heat mat - I always see minor variations in germination time....

Agree Craig, too many variables, really.

But for me, with increasing seed age they do dehydrate which is why I mentioned that variable first.

Unfortunately it may turn out that Scott will have no idea whatsoever how old the seeds are b'c those packed by dates are of no use at all in determining seed age.

Sherry_AK · January 3, 2012

Quote:

sitting on old heating pads set to medium. Air temp was around 50 degrees.

Did you test temperature of your tray? I'm not sure how warm a medium setting would be on a heating pad, but potentially could be too hot. There could have been cooler spots in the tray which was where you got better germination.

Sherry

hoffman900 · January 4, 2012

Try it with a soiless potting mix.

I work in a greenhouse when I'm not in school. We used a ripped bag of the Miracle Gro Potting Mix for personal projects and it was crap compared to the soiless mix we buy in bulk for growing plants for retail. Low germination rates and weeds were growing out of it.

Tania · January 4, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoffman900

Try it with a soiless potting mix.

I work in a greenhouse when I'm not in school. We used a ripped bag of the Miracle Gro Potting Mix for personal projects and it was crap compared to the soiless mix we buy in bulk for growing plants for retail. Low germination rates and weeds were growing out of it.

Had somewhat similar experience this year - used a leftover mix (PRO-MIX HP with Mycorise) that was sitting open on a covered deck since last winter, and I had many (~90%

) failures in pepper starts. Switched to a fresh bag, and a miracle happened - 80-100% germination on most pepper seeds. First I thought the seeds were bad, but then noticed that a few manage to emerge, but just set there for 2 weeks doing nothing - I pulled a few just to discover that they had absolutely no roots left. Just a stem. Not sure what was what killed the roots... but it is not happening with the fresh bag. Interesting enough, tomato seeds were a bit tougher and about 50% made it despite the mix issues.

First I thought I lost my green thumb... first time I had such a devastating failure with pepper seed starts!

Luckily the restarts look healthy and plentiful, so I am very relieved.

Scott, I hope you'll still get good germination, as it's only been 4 days...

Fusion_power · January 4, 2012

Tania, your experience is typical for phytothora infection. Most people don't realize that pro-mix is sterilized by steam in the process of packing. If you leave a bag outside, it will be re-infested from airborne pathogens.

A huge rule of thumb for seed growers is to ALWAYS use a new unopened bag of soilless seed start mix for starting all solanum seed.

How do I know this? yep, you got it, been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

One other note that will really help, be very careful how deep you plant seed. As tomato seed get older, germination is inhibited by the depth at which seed are planted. If you plant them 1/8 of an inch deep, they will grow but if planted 1/4 of an inch deep, many will not.

DarJones

ScottinAtlanta · January 4, 2012

Folks, at 108 hours, I am getting 50% germination. Some varieties are obviously better than others. The two fastest germinators by far are:

Sungold Yellow Cherry
Cherokee Purple.

Both had 100% germination at around 100 hours.

But I can see a clear pattern. Where the heating pads are coolest, seeds have not germinated. Where heating pads are warmer, seeds have mostly germinated. Even a few degrees of soil temperature seems to make a huge difference in germination periods.

bigbubbacain · January 4, 2012

I got my best results with heating pads when I placed some type of barrier or even a grate between the pad and the tray full of seeds. Heating pads were difficult for me to regulate because the older ones that I had would get too hot and the newer ones had an "auto shut off" control.

Tania · January 4, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Tania, your experience is typical for phytothora infection. Most people don't realize that pro-mix is sterilized by steam in the process of packing. If you leave a bag outside, it will be re-infested from airborne pathogens.

A huge rule of thumb for seed growers is to ALWAYS use a new unopened bag of soilless seed start mix for starting all solanum seed.

How do I know this? yep, you got it, been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

One other note that will really help, be very careful how deep you plant seed. As tomato seed get older, germination is inhibited by the depth at which seed are planted. If you plant them 1/8 of an inch deep, they will grow but if planted 1/4 of an inch deep, many will not.

DarJones

Darrel, that's it! Now I got my T-shirt too

I think I was simply lucky in the past not to get into this situation. Now have to shop for another bale of the starting mix...

I never cover my seeds when I plant. I add just a bit of mix once I see them sprouting. This way I can see how they germinate (I am a control freak

)

ScottinAtlanta · January 8, 2012

Nine days from seeding. Here is the final performance, by variety (not by vendor):

Prue: 75%
Green Zebra: 75%
Aunt Molly's Ground Cherry: 100% (very tiny seedlings!)
Cherokee Purple: 100%
Black Krim: 100%
Red Zebra: 50%
Black from Tula: 0%
Bradley: 66%
Lime Green: 100%
Aunt Ruby German Green: 66%
Cherokee Green: 100%
Sungold Select: 100%
Sungold Yellow Cherry: 100%

Why would Black from Tula be 0% (none of out 5 cells germinated)? Old seeds?

January 3, 2012	#4
Tania Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anmore, BC, Canada Posts: 3,970	Seed age is not the only variable - the degree of seed dryness could be a factor too. I carefully document germination rates of all different seeds, both mine and acquired, and at times I get surprised to see 2001 seeds sprouting in just 8 days when newer seeds taking up to 12 days (under the same condition in my cold laundry room with 12 hrs bottom heat). Just had this happening this week when I was starting some seeds, had 83%, 87% and 90% germination with my 2003 seed and 50% with someone's else 2001 seed, but only 33% for my 2005 seed and 0% for someone's else 2005 seeds after 8 days. This is when some 2006 acquired seeds has not even sprouted yet. Sometimes I also get different germination rates when I test at different times - i.e., I test a seed batch and mark it 'low germination', then an year later I use it to plant my own seedlings and it shows much better germination. Go figure! Scott, if you got some seeds from me, you should be able to look up the year I grew them, it is available at both online seed catalog and at Tomatobase (under B.C KO T). Tatiana __________________ Tatiana's TOMATObase

January 3, 2012	#5
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	So many variables - seed age of course, time seed was fermented (number of days) and conditions, seed dryness, how seed was stored, exact planting seed depth, placement in relation to hot spots on the heat mat - I always see minor variations in germination time.... __________________ Craig

January 4, 2012	#12
ScottinAtlanta Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 2,593	108 hours Folks, at 108 hours, I am getting 50% germination. Some varieties are obviously better than others. The two fastest germinators by far are: Sungold Yellow Cherry Cherokee Purple. Both had 100% germination at around 100 hours. But I can see a clear pattern. Where the heating pads are coolest, seeds have not germinated. Where heating pads are warmer, seeds have mostly germinated. Even a few degrees of soil temperature seems to make a huge difference in germination periods.

January 4, 2012	#9
hoffman900 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Southern New Jersey Posts: 36	Try it with a soiless potting mix. I work in a greenhouse when I'm not in school. We used a ripped bag of the Miracle Gro Potting Mix for personal projects and it was crap compared to the soiless mix we buy in bulk for growing plants for retail. Low germination rates and weeds were growing out of it.

January 4, 2012	#11
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	Tania, your experience is typical for phytothora infection. Most people don't realize that pro-mix is sterilized by steam in the process of packing. If you leave a bag outside, it will be re-infested from airborne pathogens. A huge rule of thumb for seed growers is to ALWAYS use a new unopened bag of soilless seed start mix for starting all solanum seed. How do I know this? yep, you got it, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. One other note that will really help, be very careful how deep you plant seed. As tomato seed get older, germination is inhibited by the depth at which seed are planted. If you plant them 1/8 of an inch deep, they will grow but if planted 1/4 of an inch deep, many will not. DarJones

January 4, 2012	#13
bigbubbacain Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zone 9 Texas, Fort Bend County Posts: 436	I got my best results with heating pads when I placed some type of barrier or even a grate between the pad and the tray full of seeds. Heating pads were difficult for me to regulate because the older ones that I had would get too hot and the newer ones had an "auto shut off" control.