Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Information and discussion regarding garden diseases, insects and other unwelcome critters.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 21, 2011   #1
fortyonenorth
Tomatovillian™
 
fortyonenorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,150
Default Actinovate and mycorrhizae

Has anyone done side-by-side comparisons of using mycorrhizae with and without simultaneous application of Actinovate? I ask this because it seems like Actinovate (when applied as a root drench) is working in opposition to the mycorrhizae. Would it make more sense to apply the Actinovate first and then inoculate with mycorrhizae several days later? Or, alternately, limit Actinovate to foliar application if you're also using mycorrhizae?

Ray, Ami and others - you have much more knowledge in this area than I, so I'd be really interested in your feedback.
fortyonenorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21, 2011   #2
rnewste
Tomatovillian™
 
rnewste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Campbell, CA
Posts: 4,064
Default

I leave a 2 week interval between applications of these products. No "scientific" reason - - just my gut telling me to do this.

Raybo
rnewste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22, 2011   #3
amideutch
Tomatovillian™
 
amideutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E
Posts: 5,041
Default

MycoGrow Soluable has the same type bacteria (Streptomyces lydicus) in it's ingredients as Actinovate. The only difference is Actinovate's strain is different from that of MG. Fungi and Bacteria work together in the Rhizophere and in Actinovates case this strain of bacteria targets the bad guys and not the good ones. Just like using Actinovate and Exel LG together as a foliar fungicide, the phosphorous acid in Exel LG does not affect the Streptomyces lydicus in Actinovate.

Ami
__________________
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

Last edited by amideutch; April 22, 2011 at 02:27 AM.
amideutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22, 2011   #4
fortyonenorth
Tomatovillian™
 
fortyonenorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,150
Default

Thank you both for your comments. That's reassuring. I looked at my packet of MycoGrow Soluble and it does not list Streptomyces lydicus among it's many ingredients. But I see the Fungi Perfecti website has it listed. I just got mine in the Fall, so I assume it's just an omission rather than a reformulation.
fortyonenorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22, 2011   #5
korney19
Buffalo-Niagara Tomato TasteFest™ Co-Founder
 
korney19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Niagara Frontier
Posts: 942
Default

What is the highest NPK that can be used with those two, specifically P I guess?

Hate to see someone use those plus a commercial fert and have it kill them....
korney19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23, 2011   #6
amideutch
Tomatovillian™
 
amideutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E
Posts: 5,041
Default

As long as the "P" isn't over 5-6 you should be OK. Ami
__________________
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'
amideutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23, 2011   #7
korney19
Buffalo-Niagara Tomato TasteFest™ Co-Founder
 
korney19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Niagara Frontier
Posts: 942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amideutch View Post
As long as the "P" isn't over 5-6 you should be OK. Ami
I think that's the problem. Many are double digits. The only thing I have under that is Maxicrop seaweed powder which I think is around 1-0-7 or 1-0-4? I use it to sprout seeds.

All the MG, Peters, Shultz, Plantex stuff is over 8 I think except a few which are designed to be used with Phosphoric Acid as the P source.

Thanks Ted.

(for my seeds too.)
korney19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23, 2011   #8
rnewste
Tomatovillian™
 
rnewste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Campbell, CA
Posts: 4,064
Default

I would recommend using TomatoTone (3-4-6) as this will be a safe bet with your Mycos.

Raybo
rnewste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23, 2011   #9
fortyonenorth
Tomatovillian™
 
fortyonenorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amideutch View Post
As long as the "P" isn't over 5-6 you should be OK. Ami
Is the "P" consideration only with regard to newly applied ferts? Most decent garden soils have considerably more "P" than that in the soil already. I've read that garden soil that has been continually amended with compost and/or manure (over a number of years) could have the equivalent of thousands of pounds of P per acre in store.
fortyonenorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23, 2011   #10
fortyonenorth
Tomatovillian™
 
fortyonenorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,150
Default

taking this a bit further....

Is this "P" sensitivity simply because the plant has no biological reason to form this symbiotic relationship in conditions where nutrients are adequate?

It seems like mycorrhizae inoculation is particularly beneficial in container mixes (i.e. sterilized mixes) and on less than ideal soils. I'd be interested in evaluations of mycorrhizae inoculation on very good, biologically active soils. Is there marked improvement in quality and yield?

On a side note, now that the probiotic market is gaining traction, I see some evidence of mycorrhizae being marketed as a "cure all." I was at the garden center yesterday and saw a bag of blueberry/azalea/rhododendron fertilizer (major brand) with added endo/ecto mycorrhizae. These are among that 5% of plants which have shown no response whatsoever to endo/ecto mycorrhizae.
fortyonenorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23, 2011   #11
amideutch
Tomatovillian™
 
amideutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E
Posts: 5,041
Default

Quote:
Is this "P" sensitivity simply because the plant has no biological reason to form this symbiotic relationship in conditions where nutrients are adequate?
That is one of the reasons. Depending on the amount of "P" in the soil it can keep the symbiotic relationship from happening. They have found the use of mycorrhiza/bacteria in hydroponic systems has increased plant vigor and production. By controlling the "P" of the nutrient solution and allowing symbiosis to occur the nutrient intake of the plants increases even though the ferts used in the nutrient solution are inorganic/ionic.

More and more were finding that Arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi are not the only players in the rhizosphere where plant roots are growing. You have PGPR (Plant-Growth-Promoting-Rhizobacteria) that act as biofertilizers and biopesticdes. You are seeing them added to Myco products such as MycoGrow Soluable or as stand alone products like Biota Max. They have also found that these Myco/bacteria teams work together whether it be providing nutrients for the plant or fighting the bad guys that reside in the soil one example being Tricoderma and Mycorrhiza.

My reason for my seedling plant dip was to get all these players together and inoculate the plants in one application so they can be doing there thing from the git-go as a biofertilizer or a biopesticide.

A new product on the market that Raybo mentioned is "Great White Mycorrhiza" which is a good example of an all-in-one product that has Mycorrhiza,PGPR and Tricoderma plus vitamins. Feedback on this product has been very favorable. Right now it's running around $30.00 for 4oz. Here's a discription of the product.

Quote:
Great White is the most advanced mycorrhizal product on the market today. The combination of mycorrhizae, beneficial bacteria, trichoderma, and plant vitamins will give your plants a strong and developed root system. This will enable your plants to break down and absorb nutrients efficiently and effectively. Also it will increase water uptake and the overall absorption area of the root system, resulting in a healthier plant. Can be used in hydroponics as well as soil. May also be injected in to media.
Ami
__________________
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'
amideutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 6, 2011   #12
John3
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Alabama 7.5 or 8 depends on who you ask
Posts: 727
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amideutch View Post
That is one of the reasons. Depending on the amount of "P" in the soil it can keep the symbiotic relationship from happening. They have found the use of mycorrhiza/bacteria in hydroponic systems has increased plant vigor and production. By controlling the "P" of the nutrient solution and allowing symbiosis to occur the nutrient intake of the plants increases even though the ferts used in the nutrient solution are inorganic/ionic.

More and more were finding that Arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi are not the only players in the rhizosphere where plant roots are growing. You have PGPR (Plant-Growth-Promoting-Rhizobacteria) that act as biofertilizers and biopesticdes. You are seeing them added to Myco products such as MycoGrow Soluable or as stand alone products like Biota Max. They have also found that these Myco/bacteria teams work together whether it be providing nutrients for the plant or fighting the bad guys that reside in the soil one example being Tricoderma and Mycorrhiza.

My reason for my seedling plant dip was to get all these players together and inoculate the plants in one application so they can be doing there thing from the git-go as a biofertilizer or a biopesticide.

A new product on the market that Raybo mentioned is "Great White Mycorrhiza" which is a good example of an all-in-one product that has Mycorrhiza,PGPR and Tricoderma plus vitamins. Feedback on this product has been very favorable. Right now it's running around $30.00 for 4oz. Here's a discription of the product.



Ami
Ami I have a limeaquat that I need to transplant into a 5 gal pot - the nursery guy said to use miricale grow potting mix (the reg kind). Would this kill the effects of Actinovate, MyGrow and Biota Max?
John3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23, 2011   #13
John3
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Alabama 7.5 or 8 depends on who you ask
Posts: 727
Default

Quote:
May also be injected in to media.
Ami can you explain this for me?
John3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23, 2011   #14
BigdaddyJ
Tomatovillian™
 
BigdaddyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Zone7 Delaware
Posts: 399
Default

Ami, first, thanx for answering my PM Question which you just answered here again on the board.

Now, one last Q? After your dip, do you plant your starts immediately into theit final growing spot? That's what I was planning on doing but will reconsider if you advise otherwise. I was then going to take the remaining fluid in the bucket and drench a little around the now planted plants. I have 25 plants and they will be planted in the garden, no containers, within the next week. TIA
__________________
Farmer at Heart
BigdaddyJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23, 2011   #15
rnewste
Tomatovillian™
 
rnewste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Campbell, CA
Posts: 4,064
Default

This is the Great White that Ami spoke of:



Heck, I'd buy it - just for the "fun" package!

Raybo
rnewste is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:43 AM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2022 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★