Fall tomatoes

duajones · April 19, 2008

I know its early but I want to get seeds and be ready for the fall. I will only be growing 4-5 plants with one of them being Black Cherry. For the others I want them to be fairly early, decent tasting and productive. Ones that will do well here in the deep south. Right now the ones I am considering are:

Bloody Butcher
Break O' Day
Moskvich
Sophie's Choice

Looking for thoughts from fellow Southern gardeners

TomatoDon · April 19, 2008

I'm glad you started this thread because I've had questions about fall tomatoes also.

I wasn't aware of a fall crop being so popular, or necessary, until I came here. In the past I've just always planted in mid-late April and they produced, if I was lucky, until frost. I'm seeing here that people plant that second crop, as if they don't expect their tomatoes to produce but a relatively short period of time.

I'd really like to know more on the philosophy and purpose of the second crop. Is it in trying to have small plants growing during the main summer heat when fruit set is diminished, so they start setting fruit when the temps cool down in early fall? Is it in trying to have a younger, prime producing plant, timed for mid fall?

This is the first year I'm seriously considering a real second planting, other than the few odd replacements I've done in the past on plants that didn't make it. I'm anxious to see how people plan and do the fall crop.

Thanks, and I look forward to watching this thread. I guess I should think about starting more seeds also.

Don

rxkeith · April 19, 2008

not a southern gardener, but i'll throw in my two cents.
two varieties that i got from andrey that were earlier, productive, and decent flavor are belye noche, and zolotoe serdtse. i think at least one southern gardener has grown zolotoe serdtse. another one from andrey thats a little later is dina. another early i like is matina. people seem to be evenly divided between matina, and stupice for earliness and taste.

keith

duajones · April 19, 2008

My current plants will be toast come sometime in July because of the temps and stinkbugs. The second crop for me means tomatoes on thanksgiving and even Christmas the last two years. Night time temps above 75 and daytime temps in the mid to high nineties render the plants unable to set fruit. As Morgan mentioned once, we have two rather short growing seasons here, interrupted by an inferno.

Ruth_10 · April 19, 2008

Don, I think the two seasons (spring, fall planting) is a far south latitude (i.e. blistering heat and humidity) thing. Their plants, as Duane mentions, are toast by July. A little bit further north and the plants at least survive, even if they take a vacation during the hottest part of the summer.

TomatoDon · April 19, 2008

I hate to sound like the village idiot, but if the mature plants are toast in July, then why don't the seedlings become toast too? Do the big ones just age out faster in hot weather? Are you trying to let the seedlings grow in the hot weather while they are too young to set fruit? Then bloom and set fruit when the heat blast is over?

I'm guessing the mature plants in July are toast in the sense they can't produce in that heat and that a young crop takes their place and set fruit in the fall.

Thanks, still learning!

Don

bryanccfshr · April 19, 2008

Often times disease takes its toll in higher humidity and temperature. I am thinking of cutting my indeterminate plants back to a single smal root sucker after production falls off in the heat of summer and seeing if I have any luck that way with resuming production and growing the plats out of foilage disease and extreme heat. My thinking is that I can remove all the diseased foilage and decrease the amount of water transperation from the plant during the inferno of July and august. It is a good oppeurtunity to remove all the cover for stink bugs etc so that they can be controlled. As conditions improve so should growth and fruit set very rapidly since an extensive root system is already in place, this is entirely hypothesis until I try it.

I will probably grow some shorter season tomatoes and indeterminates as well for the fall crop of new tomato plants.

feldon30 · April 19, 2008

I have never tried keeping my tomato plants alive for 4 unproductive months (no fruitset in mid-May, June, July, August, or mid-September), but between the stink bugs and spider mites, flea beetles, and other opportunistic bugs, early blight, septoria leaf spot, bacterial spot, and bacterial speck, I think you're not going to get a decent tomato out of those horribly stressed plants.

New seedlings will limp along and by the time it's ready for them to set their first fruit, evening temperatures are beginning to moderate.

This fall I am dramatically scaling back my medium and large tomato varieties. After 2 years of almost total failure, I am going to grow something else in that space. Even when I got some large fruited varieties to set fruit and ripen, we've had some nights in the 40's which suck the flavor right out of the tomatoes (in my opinion). My only medium/large tomato this fall will be Gregori's Altai and Jet Star. Both produced for me last fall. Other than that, I am going to probably grow 3-4 cherry types and perhaps as many as a dozen Tipsy F2 plants.

CLa · April 19, 2008

I wouldn't quit on them all yet, you just need to get you some High Yield Malathion. When all my plants were in maybe the 2nd week in the ground, I noticed stink bugs building up on the plants. Maybe they came from the wheat fields, no telling. But after spraying the plants with Malathion, I have not see one since. It has been about a month. I think all the stink bugs in the area were attracted to the plants, so I wiped most of them out.

TomatoDon · April 19, 2008

Gosh, Morgan, after reading that my tomato enthusiam dropped like a rock!

You guys must have some awfully bad heat, much earlier and longer than I realized.

Did you ever see that web site, "Growing Tomatoes in Houston" that the lawyer had up? He mentioned much of what you did, but I didn't know it was that severe. We don't get unbearably hot till over into July and by September it's cooling down some.

Don

bryanccfshr · April 19, 2008

Morgan, Compared to Houston and Corpus Christi I have dryer air and lower night time temperatures throughout the summer. 2006 was a typical year.
http://home.satx.rr.com/wxapple/200607.TXT

http://home.satx.rr.com/wxapple/200608.TXT

http://home.satx.rr.com/wxapple/200609.TXT

http://home.satx.rr.com/wxapple/200610.TXT

http://home.satx.rr.com/wxapple/200611.TXT-frost

Houston has so much rain and humidity I wouldn't attempt keeping some alive, but this year I am thinking of trying to maintain a few. Corpus doesn't have as much rain but it has heavy morning dews almost daily.

duajones · April 19, 2008

All this talk of disease and such and of course when I got home today I noticed leaf curl on the upper part of most of my plants. Whiteflies and thrips are evident and I am hoping it is just an environmental issue with the recent cool nights we have had. It would break my heart for it to be a virus or something like what my neighbor has on some of his plants. Could even be some herbicidal drift with all the winds we have had lately. I have had leaf curl the past two seasons but it was much earlier than this. I also notice that the blossoming has slowed down and I am having much more blossom drop now. I am contributing that to whiteflies and possible thrips but am also wondering if I may need to give them a small dose of fertilizer at this point since I have heavy fruitset on most plants. Blossoming slowed down last year too but it was in May

Worth1 · April 19, 2008

I think I'll just plant corn.

Worth

bryanccfshr · April 19, 2008

I think the leaf curl is from the wild temp swings this spring. You guys are bumming me out. I think I'll just start fishing again.

creister · April 19, 2008

I have tried for three years to nurse plants through July and August, with very little luck. The mites are just hideous here at that time. This year, I will just grow some new plants. They are easier to maintain and treat. Some varieties that you might want to try are Azoychka, Sioux, Kimberly, Stupice, Matina, and any cherry. Two others are Silvery Fir Tree and Sophie's Choice, which you have already mentioned.

I have grown Heatwave II, Solar Fire, and Solar Set. They all produced well in the fall, but the taste is not as good, but still better than the store.

April 19, 2008	#1
duajones Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Corpus Christi,Texas Z9 Posts: 1,996	Fall tomatoes I know its early but I want to get seeds and be ready for the fall. I will only be growing 4-5 plants with one of them being Black Cherry. For the others I want them to be fairly early, decent tasting and productive. Ones that will do well here in the deep south. Right now the ones I am considering are: Bloody Butcher Break O' Day Moskvich Sophie's Choice Looking for thoughts from fellow Southern gardeners

April 19, 2008	#2
TomatoDon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MS Posts: 1,521	I'm glad you started this thread because I've had questions about fall tomatoes also. I wasn't aware of a fall crop being so popular, or necessary, until I came here. In the past I've just always planted in mid-late April and they produced, if I was lucky, until frost. I'm seeing here that people plant that second crop, as if they don't expect their tomatoes to produce but a relatively short period of time. I'd really like to know more on the philosophy and purpose of the second crop. Is it in trying to have small plants growing during the main summer heat when fruit set is diminished, so they start setting fruit when the temps cool down in early fall? Is it in trying to have a younger, prime producing plant, timed for mid fall? This is the first year I'm seriously considering a real second planting, other than the few odd replacements I've done in the past on plants that didn't make it. I'm anxious to see how people plan and do the fall crop. Thanks, and I look forward to watching this thread. I guess I should think about starting more seeds also. Don __________________ Zone 7B, N. MS

April 19, 2008	#5
Ruth_10 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MO z6a near St. Louis Posts: 1,349	Don, I think the two seasons (spring, fall planting) is a far south latitude (i.e. blistering heat and humidity) thing. Their plants, as Duane mentions, are toast by July. A little bit further north and the plants at least survive, even if they take a vacation during the hottest part of the summer. __________________ --Ruth Some say the glass half-full. Others say the glass is half-empty. To an engineer, it’s twice as big as it needs to be.

April 19, 2008	#6
TomatoDon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MS Posts: 1,521	I hate to sound like the village idiot, but if the mature plants are toast in July, then why don't the seedlings become toast too? Do the big ones just age out faster in hot weather? Are you trying to let the seedlings grow in the hot weather while they are too young to set fruit? Then bloom and set fruit when the heat blast is over? I'm guessing the mature plants in July are toast in the sense they can't produce in that heat and that a young crop takes their place and set fruit in the fall. Thanks, still learning! Don __________________ Zone 7B, N. MS

April 19, 2008	#7
bryanccfshr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: Farmington, Nm Posts: 450	Often times disease takes its toll in higher humidity and temperature. I am thinking of cutting my indeterminate plants back to a single smal root sucker after production falls off in the heat of summer and seeing if I have any luck that way with resuming production and growing the plats out of foilage disease and extreme heat. My thinking is that I can remove all the diseased foilage and decrease the amount of water transperation from the plant during the inferno of July and august. It is a good oppeurtunity to remove all the cover for stink bugs etc so that they can be controlled. As conditions improve so should growth and fruit set very rapidly since an extensive root system is already in place, this is entirely hypothesis until I try it. I will probably grow some shorter season tomatoes and indeterminates as well for the fall crop of new tomato plants. __________________ I moved!

April 19, 2008	#3
rxkeith Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Back in da U.P. Posts: 1,840	not a southern gardener, but i'll throw in my two cents. two varieties that i got from andrey that were earlier, productive, and decent flavor are belye noche, and zolotoe serdtse. i think at least one southern gardener has grown zolotoe serdtse. another one from andrey thats a little later is dina. another early i like is matina. people seem to be evenly divided between matina, and stupice for earliness and taste. keith

April 19, 2008	#8
feldon30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,346	I have never tried keeping my tomato plants alive for 4 unproductive months (no fruitset in mid-May, June, July, August, or mid-September), but between the stink bugs and spider mites, flea beetles, and other opportunistic bugs, early blight, septoria leaf spot, bacterial spot, and bacterial speck, I think you're not going to get a decent tomato out of those horribly stressed plants. New seedlings will limp along and by the time it's ready for them to set their first fruit, evening temperatures are beginning to moderate. This fall I am dramatically scaling back my medium and large tomato varieties. After 2 years of almost total failure, I am going to grow something else in that space. Even when I got some large fruited varieties to set fruit and ripen, we've had some nights in the 40's which suck the flavor right out of the tomatoes (in my opinion). My only medium/large tomato this fall will be Gregori's Altai and Jet Star. Both produced for me last fall. Other than that, I am going to probably grow 3-4 cherry types and perhaps as many as a dozen Tipsy F2 plants. __________________ [SIZE="3"]I've relaunched my gardening website -- [B]TheUnconventionalTomato.com[/B][/SIZE] * [I][SIZE="1"]*I'm not allowed to post weblinks so you'll have to copy-paste it manually.[/SIZE][/I]

April 19, 2008	#9
CLa Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Central Louisiana. Zone: 8 Posts: 207	I wouldn't quit on them all yet, you just need to get you some High Yield Malathion. When all my plants were in maybe the 2nd week in the ground, I noticed stink bugs building up on the plants. Maybe they came from the wheat fields, no telling. But after spraying the plants with Malathion, I have not see one since. It has been about a month. I think all the stink bugs in the area were attracted to the plants, so I wiped most of them out.

April 19, 2008	#13
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I think I'll just plant corn. Worth

April 19, 2008	#15
creister Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Abilene, TX zone 7 Posts: 1,478	I have tried for three years to nurse plants through July and August, with very little luck. The mites are just hideous here at that time. This year, I will just grow some new plants. They are easier to maintain and treat. Some varieties that you might want to try are Azoychka, Sioux, Kimberly, Stupice, Matina, and any cherry. Two others are Silvery Fir Tree and Sophie's Choice, which you have already mentioned. I have grown Heatwave II, Solar Fire, and Solar Set. They all produced well in the fall, but the taste is not as good, but still better than the store.