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Old April 25, 2012   #16
Farmette
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Brian:
I am going to piggyback to your post because your pictures show what seems to be happening to my tomato leaves. The undersides of my leaves also seem like they have shiny spots. I sprayed with a diluted solution of Captain Jack's Deadbug Brew because the plants are only large enough to be in 3 inch pots right now. Within hours, I saw them starting to bend over...I panicked and spayed them with water. Some are recovering and some are continuing with the devastation. The main stems seem to be ok, but on some plants the leaf stems are beginning to get floppy. This morning several of the leaf stems had separated or been separated from the main stem. I am thinking this is insect damage and so I am contemplating spraying with something not as potent as Captain Jack. And then again maybe it is not an insect.
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Old April 25, 2012   #17
babice
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Farmette - if you turn the leaves over, are there any creepy crawlies hangin out there? And/or do you see anything fluttering around if you kinda shake the plants or brush your hands over the tops of them?
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Old April 25, 2012   #18
Farmette
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Going through the leaves of 50 plants now...these were supposed to be for our church fundraiser sale (proceeds to fund garden that produces for our local food pantry)...so I am hoping I can get this under control.
I will also say that the undersides of the first leaves (not the true leaves) of the seedlings had a purple cast to almost all and that I had an unusual amount of stuck seed coats this year.
Anyway, today I saw a very small white creature with wings on the underside of a mature leaf. I am also seeing some small black specks, but that could be from the growing medium.
Typically:
Leaves get some shiny spots then get very thin feeling. Then branch gets floppy. Leaves either shrivel and whole branch falls off or branch develops cut mark at the pt they join the stem and then the branch falls off. New growth looks healthy, but we won't get much of a donation for sick looking, floppy, leggy plants.
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Old April 25, 2012   #19
brian zimmerman
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alright farnette i can tell you exactly whats happening since i was able to prove it on my own plants..

you my friend have thrips. they are a tiny little insect that sucks the life out of leaves. ( the shiny papper thin spots are proof positive that you have them ) the purple coloring on the undersides of your leaves are natural for most all tomato plants and will go away within a couple weeks after transplanting ( with propper fertilizing ).

i mixed a batch of my own insecticide and it has so far delt with the thrips swifty and harshly ( hehe thrip geniside )

recipy

12 jalapeno peppers ( hotter peppers work better ) but for seedlings i wouldnt
3 whole onions
3 whole bulbs of garlic

mince them up realy well with a cheffs knife, put them in 1 gallon of water ( large cooking pot ) bring it to a rolling boil for 10 min, put it on low and cover it for 1 hour. filter out the solids and let it cool, when its cool enough to be put into a 1 gallon milk jug you should filter it again and put it in the jug, fill it to the top with water ( distilled if you can ).

this makes the CONCENTRATE, do not use this on your plants as it is now, dilute it in a 1:3 ratio. 1 part concentrate to 3 parts water ( i would use 1:6 ). take the DILUTE mixture and put it into a spray bottle ( any normal spray bottle will do ) add 1 teaspoon of light cooking oil and shake untill it is opake and the oil is well mixed. then spray on the plants untill the water is dripping of the leaves, cover the tops and bottoms of the leaves, shaking the bottle every 5 or 6 sprays.

some people add soap to the mix to keep the oil mixed, i however refuse to add any soap organic or not to a mix i spray on my plants.

a word of warning, this may or may not damage seedlings since insecticides or insect repelents of any kind are fairly harsh, a double diluted mixtrue of this SHOULD be ok, but i wont garantee anyting.

WARNING - do not under any cercomstances use this mixture in the morning or day time, the oil will magnify the sun and kill your plants, ONLY use this at night just after the sun goes down.

re-apply every 3 days, after rain or wattering.

Last edited by brian zimmerman; April 25, 2012 at 12:18 PM.
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Old April 25, 2012   #20
RayR
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A Purple cast on the underside of the cotyledons is not unusual. The small white winged creature may be a white fly. What does the stem look like at the base of the soil?
Pictures could be helpful.
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Old April 25, 2012   #21
Farmette
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Yes, I think you are right about the thrips. I've never had them before, but somewhere I read that they like lettuce seedlings and I did start a bunch of lettuce plants before the tomatoes.
Now, I these tomatoes are still in pots, not in the ground. So, I would think I could spray anytime as long as they weren't in sunlight. True?
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Old April 25, 2012   #22
kurt
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http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74145.html Real good article on killing the crud in soil during off season.Seems that is what the whole problem is,the crud is in the ground and over seasons
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Old April 25, 2012   #23
brian zimmerman
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if they are not taking direct sunlight it shouldnt be a problem however the oil acts as a magnifieing glass so keep that in mind, if the sun is bright enough even in shade it can cause leafe burn. thrips are known for attacking plants like lettus, tomatoes, peppers, spinich, onions, potatoes, basicly anything with softer leaves that it can feed from, they alsow spread a large number of plant diseases around threw your guarden so it's vital that you kill as many of them off as possible or it could cause permanent damage if not kill the plants out right.
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Old April 25, 2012   #24
Farmette
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Trying to upload images
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Old April 25, 2012   #25
Farmette
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Having trouble uploading images from my computer. I think I am following directions. I have 7 photos, maybe that is too many. I browse, upload and it takes a long time and I see nothing uploaded on my message.
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Old April 25, 2012   #26
Farmette
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Brian:
I noticed you had a version of your recipe posted on another thread:
4 jalapenos, 1 onion, 1 garlic bulb, 1 gallon of water.
I do not think I need the amount of pepper spray that the concentrated recipe makes, so if I just use the one above do I use it straight out of the gallon mixture?
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Old April 25, 2012   #27
brian zimmerman
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yes and no, i would still dilute that one for seedlings by at least 1/2 so 1:1 1 part mixture 1 part water, i would say for your seeds though based on how they reacted to the last spray of pesticide that if you chose to use the 4 - 1 - 1 to use a 1:2 ratio just to be safe

as for the images it can take several minuts to upload and it wont show up on your post or previews untill you actual finalize ( post ) your post. just upload them and minimize ( dont close ) the upload screen, it will pop back up when its finished ( thats how i do it so i know when its finished ) then you can close it and just hit the post button and its all ready to go.

a simple walkthrew

go to the post you say trying to uplaod images


click edit

bottom right hit - go advanced

where it says additional options hit manage attachments

it will open a popup menu with 10 slots for attachments

click on browse and put your picture in

move to the next slot and repete the prosses

when your done hit upload ( the first one on the page NOT the second one )
it will say uploading - at this point minimize the screen and continue serfing the web / writing your post

when it pops back up saying complete close it

post your thread and the pics should be at the bottom.
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Old April 25, 2012   #28
Dutch
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Farmette,
I have some 32 cell flats of Champion II hybrid tomato plants that I would like to donate to your church fundraiser sale. I also have some Early Sunsation pepper plants that I would like to donate. I have over a dozen flats of each. Donating 2 or 3 flats of each would be no problem.
Dutch

Last edited by Dutch; April 25, 2012 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Grammer
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Old April 26, 2012   #29
Farmette
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Dutch:
Thanks for the offer. Right now I am spraying the plants and will get back to you.

Brian:
Here are the pictures...thanks for the detailed instructions:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_6257.jpg (120.2 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6259.jpg (164.4 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6260.jpg (124.2 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6261.jpg (124.6 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6262.jpg (113.5 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6263.jpg (193.8 KB, 28 views)

Last edited by Farmette; April 26, 2012 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Pictures
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Old April 26, 2012   #30
brian zimmerman
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thanks for the pics. the purple is nothing to wory about, normal for tomatoes, infact my tomatoes still have the purple base of the stem after 3 weeks in the garden, although the leaves have changed to a normal green.

as for the damage to the plants it looks like thrips as i said beffor. i got rid of my thrip infestation in a couple of days with the mix i gave you so i dont have problems with them anymore, although the leafhoppers are still a problem so im giving a new mix a shot in a couple days and ill let you know how that works out.

leafhoppers are much larger than thrips and require a different forumla to deal with, all you can realy do is chase them away or kill them using bug soaps or pesticides ( bothe of thos products i wont use ) so im giving a garlic / clove concentrate a try to see if i can chase them away.

odds are if the mix i gave you isnt working and the plants are exposed to the open where some larger insects can get in you probably alsow have white flys / leafhoppers. another common insect that causes lots of problems for tomatoes.

from the searching ive done dealing with those insects is a bit harder than thrips and requires a REALY strong garlic mix to chase them away.

recipy

2 whole heads of garlic
20 cloves ( the seasoning cloves, not garlic cloves ) - these will act as a pesticide ( the active ingrediant is actualy used in pesticides - the same reason they make your mouth go numb if you eat to many ) but it wont harm humans unless you eat an ungodly number or use the concentrated clove oil. if you are not comfertable using this you can leave it out.

basicly take the whole heads of garlic seperate the garlic cloves and cut them all in half, throw them in a blender, after that take the 20 seasoning cloves and grind them up with a morter and pestle into a rough powder, put that in the blender

add 1 pint of water and mix untill it looks realy finly choped up. poor into a gallon jug, fill to the top with water and let sit for 24 hours ( shaking every hour or so ). filter out the solids ( a coffee filter will do ) poor into a spray bottle add 1 tablespoon of light cooking oil to the spray bottle ( not the gallon of mix ) and spray your plants the same way you do with the other mix.

the reason im giving this a try is because its a much stronger solution and can deal with larger bugs ontop of thrips, the garlic alsow acts as a fungicide so its a more balanced solution. since garlic and cloves are not volitle oils and wont harm plants you can spray the concentrate right out of the jug without diluting.

i would give that a shot if the first mix dosnt fix the problem.

im in the process of dealing with quite a few kinds of bugs attacking my tomatoes right now lol, so while the first mix delt with the thrips it wasnt strong enough to deal with the other insects. now i get to play around with the leafhoppers.

again as for you pics it dosnt seem like your infestation is that bad, the first mix should be plenty to stop them. and the purple is normal so its nothing to wory about.

oh i ended up pulling the tomatoes i was spraying since they were infected by TSWV, now im spraying my cuccumbers since the thrips / leafhoppers have migrated... sigh this year is going to be realy fun . lets just hope my other bed of tomatoes dosnt come down with it.

Last edited by brian zimmerman; April 26, 2012 at 01:58 PM.
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