Best grafted tomato varieties?

[z_willus_d]

Hi Marla, the shotgun and scatter approach will probably yield the best results. I wish I had remembered to try that, but I was hoping for germination/growth parity with my RS/scion (non dwarf this time) seedlings. I really should start another batch of scion pairs, but it's so hard to discard all those healthy seedlings and I don't have room to nurture them for another round. No one said this would be easy.
-n

[b54red]

Naysen, I also will have quite a time matching my rootstock to my scions. I bought 3 different sized clips to help with that. As to the scions being too big that should not be too hard to fix. Just cut the scion off much higher up to match the size of the rootstock. I don't think it matters too much how high up you cut off the scion. The bigger problem for me is some of my rootstock are way larger than any of my scions so I will have to graft well above the cotyledons and I have heard it is less successful to graft high up. Oh well, I will be grafting some below and many above and then find out by my usual method. Trial and error with mostly error.

[z_willus_d]

B54red- I thought there was some uncertainty earlier in the thread about whether grafting either or both RS and scion at a point beyond the cotyledons. I believe optimal is just below the two leaves and with them chopped off. Perhaps that more applies to just the RS and less so (if at all) the scion, but I haven't heard a definitive answer to that question yet. (Unless you believe yours is definitional.)

Even if it's fine to cut of the scion well above the cotyledons, what I'm finding in the growth pattern of my healthy, young scion seedlings is that they're shooting out all kinds of leaves and branches at the tip and leaving no "narrower" stem stretch with which to cut and make the union. I have all the plants under 20-hour/day lighting, so I might want to find a way to limit the light to just the scions in an attempt to "stretch" their stems.

Couple other things to be careful of: (i) make sure both RS and scion are healthy and under no stress at the time of grafting (and after); (ii) don't let the "skin" of the tomato stem toughen up before grafting; things like cold treatment, wind exposure, etc. cause this.

Good luck. I think we both can use it.
-naysen

[livinonfaith]

Think I'll also have to restart my first set of scions. most of them are just too large for the rootstock.

So my first set of rootstock will go toward my second set of scions and my second set of rootstock toward my third set of scions.

This really does seem strange though. I mean, we're supposed to be grafting these on to the rootstock because the rootstock is supposed to be more vigorous, right?

I guess they eventually get more vigorous? Right now they look pretty sad and puny.

[aclum]

Naysen,

If you have scions that would otherwise be tossed due to lack of a compatable rootstock, why don't you use them for grafting practice - esp. considering your success rate I went through ALOT of seedlings in my first 4 fruitless attempts at grafting. I've been tweeking things along the way and on my current 5th try I've having a bit of success, finally, but not out of the woods yet. I've been starting more seeds along the way and am on my second order of rootstock!! I've been using Katana, Grandeur, and Momotaro - all from Kitazawa. I've also started some Ping-Tung Eggplant that are growing pretty fast and if I can slow down the growth of my scions some might be compatable with the eggplant in a week or so.

Right now I've got 6 out of 9 grafts transfered to the second healing chamber under a fluorescent light with old tubes that aren't particularly bright and have had the humidity dome vents open for several hours. So far, everything's looking pretty good. The remaining 3 (not looking so hot but not dead - yet) are still in the first chamber along with 6 brand new grafts I just completed.

FWIW, here are a few of the things I've done differently since my first failed attempts (modifying things a bit at each stage).

Purchased a couple of humidity domes from Rogue Hydroponics so I was "on the same page" as the guy in the Johnny's video and other videos - one less varient to things.

I put together a grafting set-up using the follow items I had around the house and garage:

humidity meter
Ranco Electronic Temperature Control (ETC-11100) with probe
1 solid rubber lab stopper
1 rubber lab stopper with a hole
moist/dry heating pad
rubberized mesh shelf liner
pieces of cardboard
thin metal wire

I removed one of the vent covers from the dome - exposing 2 holes.

I threaded the thin wire through the edge holes on the humidity gauge and ran the wire through one of the holes in the dome and secured it it place with a solid stopper so that it was suspended in the dome where I could read it.

Using an x-acto knife I cut a slit in the side of the holed stopper and inserted the temperature control probe through the hole in the stopper. (The head of the probe is wider than the hole, but the lead wire fits perfectly in the hole - the slit was so I could get the head of the probe through the stopper) I then dropped the probe assembly into the other hole in the dome and secured the stopper in place with the temperature sensor part of the probe suspended a couple of inches off the bottom tray.

The humidity dome set-up was placed on the heating pad and the heating pad plugged into the controller with the temperture set to 83 degrees plus or minus 2 degrees.

Before grafting, I sprayed the inside of the dome and brought things up to temp. My humidity guage never went over 80 but after concluding that I over humidified my prior attempts trying to get a higher reading, I finally figured that anywhere between 70 and 80 percent is fine - using that meter.

In my early attemps, I had heavily watered the rootstock. This time I only watered moderately the night before, just so they weren't noticebly dry.

For the actual grafting, I was able to match up the sizes of the rootstock and scion pretty well, and did a standard tube graft. Then I sort of propped up the graft at the clip with a toothpick to take a little stress of the plant in case it wanted to start leaning. I also trimmed the scion leaves somewhat before grafting (which I hadn't done in other attempts).

After grafting I did a really quick fine spritz on the leaves a put them in the chamber.

I covered the chamber with the rubberized mesh shelf liner, propped up a couple of pieces of cardboard next to the two sides facing the room windows, and "walked away." I tried not to open the cover during the 4+ days the grafts were in the chamber, but I did peek in once or twice to give the sides of the dome a quick spray if the condensation on the inside of the dome was drying up. (In my early attempts, I'd been fussing with things too much, opening things up to try and prop up wilted plants, spraying twice a day, etc.)

Today, the 5th day, 6 of the plants looked pretty good so I transfered them into the second chamber. So far, so good.

Sorry to get so off topic (got carried away <g>), but wanted to give you some encouragement, that there is at least some hope for success if you keep at it - so, as I said, I'd go ahead and practice grafting on your extra scions!

BTW, there's a very encouraging video on You Tube. Don't have the link off hand but look up time lapse grafted tomato.

Anne

[livinonfaith]

aclum, I know that was aimed at Naysen, but wanted to thank you, too.

All of that is very helpful!

[z_willus_d]

Hi Anne, I'm very happy to read that you're on an upward trajectory with your grafting trials. It sounds like you've really got the process down to a near science at this point. I also appreciate the great detail to which you've gone to describe your process.

Regarding my less than stellar grafting success rate this Winter, I want to place nearly 100% of the blame at the doors of: (a) inconsistent RS/scion mate pair stem diameters and (b) over mature seedlings with toughened stem "skin." I want to try and eliminate both of those negative factors and get back to the environment that I had when Marla helped me where I reached a 50% success rate.

I think I agree with your "leave 'em be" caution, especially early on right after the graft. I'm wondering what the optimal temperature is for the "hospital" during the healing process. I have a space heater (oil) in my closet (not the wisest thing, yes I know), and I seem to be able to maintain a temp range of 74-87F. I'd like to know if the 87 is too hot? Is it better to allow cooler temps during the healing process. I hope someone can chime in on that question.

I assume your suggestion to practice the grafting applied to scion on scion, right? I certainly don't have the spare RS seedlings to waste on educational trial runs, just too darn expensive and difficult to raise up. I probably should practice more with the scion-scion grafts, but I feel like it's such a shame to loose the beautiful plants. I'm going to try and find some welcome homes for the unused larger, vigorous scions. They deserve better than my hatchetteering, even in the best of causes.

Let's all continue to post our findings and results here on the site. We can all learn from each other's successes and failures.

Thanks,
Naysen

[Stvrob]

Originally Posted by efisakov

Is anyone planning on grafting multiple varieties on one plant?
I was thinking of grafting few cherries...
Ella

I grafted cherokee purple onto betterboy rootstocks, leaving the cotyledon of the betterboy (for some of them anyway). A few of them started growing a sucker from the cotyledon so I grafted a brandywine onto that. Not sure what I'm gonna do with these, maybe give them as gifts for relatives without much garden space.

When I cut off the top of the rootstocks, I've been rooting them and using them for more rootstocks

Also have a few celebrity cuttings that have rooted and have several growing points. Ive been trying to graft several different varieties on these, but alot of the grafts havent been taken very well. Perhaps because the cuttings were taken from a mature plant? Not really sure.

Also, been taking alot of heirloom scions from above the cotyledons. Instead of chunking these, I've been keeping them growing and harvesting their suckers for more scions.
Im quickly acquiring more grafted plants than I need!

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Stvrob

I grafted cherokee purple onto betterboy rootstocks, leaving the cotyledon of the betterboy (for some of them anyway). A few of them started growing a sucker from the cotyledon so I grafted a brandywine onto that. Not sure what I'm gonna do with these, maybe give them as gifts for relatives without much garden space.

When I cut off the top of the rootstocks, I've been rooting them and using them for more rootstocks

Also have a few celebrity cuttings that have rooted and have several growing points. Ive been trying to graft several different varieties on these, but alot of the grafts havent been taken very well. Perhaps because the cuttings were taken from a mature plant? Not really sure.

Also, been taking alot of heirloom scions from above the cotyledons. Instead of chunking these, I've been keeping them growing and harvesting their suckers for more scions.
Im quickly acquiring more grafted plants than I need!

Sounds like some good ideas. I really like the one of rooting the cut offs from the rootstock plants.

[Stvrob]

Originally Posted by b54red

Sounds like some good ideas. I really like the one of rooting the cut offs from the rootstock plants.

Yes, the little rootstock tips are full of vigor so they root especially quickly.

[z_willus_d]

I agree. I'll give your idea a try -- rooting the RS tip. What's your process? No or low light for a bit with high humidity while it recovers, similar to the graft process?
thx,
-naysen

[b54red]

I'm afraid of putting mine in total darkness due to the problems I have had with damping off in the past. It just seems like I would be asking for problems; but it may be necessary for grafting success. I just don't know. I would love to hear from someone who has tried both approaches.

[Stvrob]

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

I agree. I'll give your idea a try -- rooting the RS tip. What's your process? No or low light for a bit with high humidity while it recovers, similar to the graft process?
thx,
-naysen

I've just stuck them in potting mix and set them by the window on the heating pad. No humidity chamber (my house is not heated) and indirect light for a few days. Give them a spray every now and then and within a week they are growing again. You end up with an assortment of various rootstock and scion sizes to match up.

[Stvrob]

Originally Posted by b54red

I'm afraid of putting mine in total darkness due to the problems I have had with damping off in the past. It just seems like I would be asking for problems; but it may be necessary for grafting success. I just don't know. I would love to hear from someone who has tried both approaches.

I've only left mine in total darkness for 24 hours. Even then they still start getting the look like they are going to damp off. I try to push them a bit by getting them into fresh air even if the scion is wilting. The longer they remain in the humidity chamber the more likely they will damp off.
Also keep the rootstock slightly on the dry side. I've noticed that if it is pumping up too much sap in the first few days the graft doesn't heal as quickly.
I'm certainly no expert, just been playing around with it alot this winter. My success rate is probably less than 75%

[livinonfaith]

Oh Goodness, stvrob! If I achieve anywhere close to 75%, I will consider that a grand success!