Northern New England heirlooms?

gryffin · February 7, 2011

Hello all:

I'm relatively new to growing heirlooms. I enjoy reading the stories behind true heirloom varieties. I've decided it would be great if I could find some varieties grown, saved and handed down in my own area. I live in New Hampshire on the Vermont border.

I've done some basic searches- but was wondering if anyone here had any suggestions on either varieties or places to look for such varieties.

Thanks!

mjc · February 7, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by gryffin

I've done some basic searches- but was wondering if anyone here had any suggestions on either varieties or places to look for such varieties.

Thanks!

Basically, if you want true, local heirlooms...then you need to talk to old folks in the area, especially those who have gardened for a long time (and really talk to those that have a family history of gardening). Many times what you are after ARE NOT 'named' varieties (well they may have been 75 yrs ago, but if anyone remembers that, you are very, very lucky). More often than not, you'll be looking at something with a no name or at best 'Grandpa's favorite tomato'/family name attached to it.

FILMNET · February 7, 2011

I live in MA, and the city is old, but the summer's are only 3-4 months for growing. We have some diaries from 1850s, from my wife's family who lived here. Most are from Women, and there is no writing about gardens at all. Like this nasty winter year here, i but it was really hard for them then.

RinTinTin · February 16, 2011

You might try contacting:

Eastern Native Seed Conservancy (ENSC) (P.O. Box 451, 222 Main St., Great Barrington, MA 01230,
tel. 413-229-8316,

They specialize in New England native and adapted crops.
If you can find a link for them, you could post it here, as we have many NE growers on this forum.
Good luck

Tom C zone 4/5 · February 16, 2011

Around the northeast Kingdom when I lived there, we called 'em rocks...

erlyberd · February 16, 2011

Many varieties are adapted well to the New England climate you just need to know what to look for. I normally like to pick seed by somewhat matching our local climate to where the variety was grown. Like I don't want an eggplant suited to southern growing nor do I want anything that was bred in Florida. JSS has many iteams with the snowflake icon appearing next to the plant which indicates cold weather tolerance. I've done some experiements this winter and can assure you that it is not marketing/hype/bs they really are tough plants...........................If I was able to water more this winter (illness) I'd still be harvesting salads and such in the coldframe. That said I still have some lettuce, tatsoi, kale, beets and such that are still hanging on for dear life!......................Some of these would not be considered heirlooms but are open pollenated which is ok in my book........................If you want exact names on some of these tough as nails plants let me know. The biggest suprize is Bulls Blood beets, the leaves are almost perfect! Last time checked was Monday.
I'll be checking out that link. Thanks RinTin

erlyberd · February 16, 2011

Not sure if Eastern Native Seed Con is still around anymore? Their web site gives me nothing when I click on the type of seed I've selected???? I fired off an email to see what is going on. Other sources say they went under? Anyone?

**carolyn137** · February 16, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by RinTinTin

You might try contacting:

Eastern Native Seed Conservancy (ENSC) (P.O. Box 451, 222 Main St., Great Barrington, MA 01230,
tel. 413-229-8316,

They specialize in New England native and adapted crops.
If you can find a link for them, you could post it here, as we have many NE growers on this forum.
Good luck

He went out of business several years ago so no website.

I used to know him fairly well and even offered plants to him when his were destroyed after a rare tornado in the Great Barrington area, but he's a kinda different kind of guy and it didn't surprise me one bit that he had to go out of business, and he wasn't really offering much local stuff either.

I'd suggest High Mowing in VT but he doesn't offer all that much local stuff either. Same for Fedco or Pinetree or Johnny's, all here in the NE/

There are two issues here as I see it.

If the original psoter wants to find a family heirloom variety in her area where seeds haven't been distributed then she'll have to make contact with some of the folks there.

Second issue is finding tomato varieties adapted to the NE and I live jsut two miles from the VT border if I go one way and 5 miles from the VT border if I go another way and I can grow here in this area any variety I want to in most years, depending on when the first killing frost occurs, except for those that are 85 plus day varieties which are usually some of the red/gold bicolors, but not all and since I'm not in love with bicolors, so to speak, not a problem.

I'm also not a believer in local adaptation oftomato varieties.

RinTinTin · February 17, 2011

Would Vermontbean.com be a good choice? Or are they not "local"?

erlyberd · February 17, 2011

Thanks as always Carolyn, your knowledge is unbeliveable. After the 2009 season I want to be a beliver of locally adapted varieties, or at the very least similar cool, climate conditions. But it does appear that most tomatoes are widely adapted, especially hybrids? Would that be a considered a partially correct statement in your experience Carolyn? The 2009 season struck me with two hail storms, clipping the plants in half twice not to mention all the cold temps and rain for a grand total of two poorly flavored fruits in all! I honestly don't think I'll have that bad of a year ever again considering the DIY hoop house and all these crazy varities from around the globe. Then again there is natural disasters. We nearly missed a small twister/down burst by about a mile to the south last summer so its always a possibility.

**carolyn137** · February 17, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by RinTinTin

Would Vermontbean.com be a good choice? Or are they not "local"?

It would have been for bean varieties as started by the original owner several decades ago. But in a nasty takeover by Wayne Hilton who owned TT and Shumways and the like, it got converted with items from his other catalogs.

And Jung's then bought all of Hilton's holdings and have kept it pretty much the way it's been of late since they also now own TT and the other places.

There are still some good local type beans sold there but the same ones can be purchased at many other places now.

**carolyn137** · February 17, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlyberd

Thanks as always Carolyn, your knowledge is unbeliveable. After the 2009 season I want to be a beliver of locally adapted varieties, or at the very least similar cool, climate conditions. But it does appear that most tomatoes are widely adapted, especially hybrids? Would that be a considered a partially correct statement in your experience Carolyn? The 2009 season struck me with two hail storms, clipping the plants in half twice not to mention all the cold temps and rain for a grand total of two poorly flavored fruits in all! I honestly don't think I'll have that bad of a year ever again considering the DIY hoop house and all these crazy varities from around the globe. Then again there is natural disasters. We nearly missed a small twister/down burst by about a mile to the south last summer so its always a possibility.

The past three summers where I live have been horrible for tomatoes and I'm not that far from you in CT. This past summer I didn't even get fruits off of half of my plants.

Each summer is different as to weather so performance of varieties will differ.

No, I don't think hybrids are adaptive, I think that many of them outperform some of the OP varieties b'c the hybrids have what's called hybrid vigor. Which is why many folks who would prefer to grow OP's often add a hybrid or two to their plantings each season just as a backup and some actually prefer to grow hybrids, but I'm not one of them.

I just said that half my plants gave me no fruits this past summer but I was also growing Mountain Magic F1 and this is the third time with that new NCSU hybrid and it produced very well.

erlyberd · February 19, 2011

I'm sorry to hear that half your plants did'nt produce. Those were the 85 day varieties I take it?

I honestly believe last year was the best ever growing season I have ever witnessed other than the two years I spent in zone 10! (Now that is cheating) lol

I guess it was more of a local event than I realize. We were running weeks ahead of time. Finally winter came and now its beginning to losen its grip.

February 7, 2011	#1
gryffin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 229	Northern New England heirlooms? Hello all: I'm relatively new to growing heirlooms. I enjoy reading the stories behind true heirloom varieties. I've decided it would be great if I could find some varieties grown, saved and handed down in my own area. I live in New Hampshire on the Vermont border. I've done some basic searches- but was wondering if anyone here had any suggestions on either varieties or places to look for such varieties. Thanks!

February 7, 2011	#3
FILMNET Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North Charleston,South Carolina, USA Posts: 1,803	ITE I live in MA, and the city is old, but the summer's are only 3-4 months for growing. We have some diaries from 1850s, from my wife's family who lived here. Most are from Women, and there is no writing about gardens at all. Like this nasty winter year here, i but it was really hard for them then.

February 16, 2011	#5
Tom C zone 4/5 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: SE Ohio Posts: 253	Around the northeast Kingdom when I lived there, we called 'em rocks... __________________ Beyond the mountains, there are more mountains.

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February 16, 2011	#4
RinTinTin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Seattle Posts: 581	You might try contacting: Eastern Native Seed Conservancy (ENSC) (P.O. Box 451, 222 Main St., Great Barrington, MA 01230, tel. 413-229-8316, They specialize in New England native and adapted crops. If you can find a link for them, you could post it here, as we have many NE growers on this forum. Good luck

February 16, 2011	#6
erlyberd Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CT Zone 5 Posts: 186	Many varieties are adapted well to the New England climate you just need to know what to look for. I normally like to pick seed by somewhat matching our local climate to where the variety was grown. Like I don't want an eggplant suited to southern growing nor do I want anything that was bred in Florida. JSS has many iteams with the snowflake icon appearing next to the plant which indicates cold weather tolerance. I've done some experiements this winter and can assure you that it is not marketing/hype/bs they really are tough plants...........................If I was able to water more this winter (illness) I'd still be harvesting salads and such in the coldframe. That said I still have some lettuce, tatsoi, kale, beets and such that are still hanging on for dear life!......................Some of these would not be considered heirlooms but are open pollenated which is ok in my book........................If you want exact names on some of these tough as nails plants let me know. The biggest suprize is Bulls Blood beets, the leaves are almost perfect! Last time checked was Monday. I'll be checking out that link. Thanks RinTin

February 17, 2011	#9
RinTinTin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Seattle Posts: 581	Would Vermontbean.com be a good choice? Or are they not "local"?

February 19, 2011	#13
erlyberd Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CT Zone 5 Posts: 186	I'm sorry to hear that half your plants did'nt produce. Those were the 85 day varieties I take it? I honestly believe last year was the best ever growing season I have ever witnessed other than the two years I spent in zone 10! (Now that is cheating) lol I guess it was more of a local event than I realize. We were running weeks ahead of time. Finally winter came and now its beginning to losen its grip.