Soil Block mixture?

[beeman]

Comments please....fertilizer, lime or no, in seed mixtures?
Anyone with an answer?

[Fusion_power]

It depends on what you start with. If you start with a low nutrient mix, you will have to add fertilizer in one form or another. Here is a mix that will do what you want and is not expensive to make. A cubic foot is about 7.5 gallons.

3.5 parts worm castings (I use 25 gallons or 3.5 cubic feet)
3.5 parts peat moss (I use 3.5 cubic feet bale)
2 parts perlite (I use 2 cubic ft)
2 parts medium clay loam soil (Also 2 cubic feet)
Add 1 cup dolomite lime for each 25 gallons of mix (I use just over a pint)

This mix will have all the nutrients needed except nitrogen. You can either add a commercial fertilizer like miracle grow or you can use guano to bring the nitrogen level up to snuff. If you use miracle grow 15-30-15, then add 7 level tablespoons to the above mix. Add one pint of powdered 12-12-2.5 guano to do the same thing. Why a pint of quano and only 7 tablespoons of miracle grow? Because only 4% of the nitrogen in guano is immediately available, the rest is released slowly over time. Why do you need the extra nitrogen? Because the peat moss absorbs nitrogen from the worm castings leaving the overall mix nitrogen deficient.

DarJones

[beeman]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

It depends on what you start with. If you start with a low nutrient mix, you will have to add fertilizer in one form or another.

. Why do you need the extra nitrogen? Because the peat moss absorbs nitrogen from the worm castings leaving the overall mix nitrogen deficient. DarJones

My problem, I have fusarium, so soil addition is really out.
I'm trying to establish if fertilizer is added to a "seed mixture". I have found conflicting answers. Some add it some don't.

[salix]

Dar, thanks for the recipe and your clear explanation.

[JamesL]

Beeman,
I have been going with straight Promix Bx and adding very weak liquid fert after about a week in.
Don't see the harm in adding it up front, but I would not add lime. Just don't see the need for it at this stage.

[Fusion_power]

Beeman, you asked about a soil block mix. I gave you a soil block mix. If your soil is loaded with fusarium, then consider steam sterilizing your soil mix. Put 3 inches of water in the bottom of a steel 55 gallon drum, put 5 bricks in the bottom of the drum, place a metal plate with a bunch of 1/4 inch holes drilled in it on top of the bricks, then fill the drum full of the above soil mix and put a metal lid loosely on top of the drum. Sit the drum on top of a turkey cooker and turn up the heat. Let the water in the bottom boil for at least 45 minutes until steam permeates the entire drum all the way through. The temperature should reach at least 180 degrees in the middle of the mix. If you are not sure, use a candy thermometer to check that the temperature is high enough. Turn off the turkey cooker, seal the lid on top of the drum and walk away from it for 24 hours while it cools. Now you have nice clean sterile soil mix to start your plants.

As for avoiding leggy seedlings, that is simple. Put them in full direct sunlight. Walk by them a couple of times a day and rub your hands back and forth across the plants, heavy enough to make them flex quite a bit, but not enough to break them. The effect this has on plants is called thigmatropy, a simple way of modifying the way a plant grows. Making plants grow is actually a lot easier than beekeeping.

DarJones

[beeman]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Beeman, you asked about a soil block mix. I gave you a soil block mix. If your soil is loaded with fusarium, then consider steam sterilizing your soil mix. Put 3 inches of water in the bottom of a steel 55 gallon drum, put 5 bricks in the bottom of the drum, place a metal plate with a bunch of 1/4 inch holes drilled in it on top of the bricks, then fill the drum full of the above soil mix and put a metal lid loosely on top of the drum. Sit the drum on top of a turkey cooker and turn up the heat. Let the water in the bottom boil for at least 45 minutes until steam permeates the entire drum all the way through. The temperature should reach at least 180 degrees in the middle of the mix. If you are not sure, use a candy thermometer to check that the temperature is high enough. Turn off the turkey cooker, seal the lid on top of the drum and walk away from it for 24 hours while it cools. Now you have nice clean sterile soil mix to start your plants.

As for avoiding leggy seedlings, that is simple. Put them in full direct sunlight. Walk by them a couple of times a day and rub your hands back and forth across the plants, heavy enough to make them flex quite a bit, but not enough to break them. The effect this has on plants is called thigmatropy, a simple way of modifying the way a plant grows. Making plants grow is actually a lot easier than beekeeping.DarJones

I thank you for the information, no doubt it will be useful in the future, but it doesn't answer the question:- Is it correct to add fertilizer, ie:-Blood meal, bone meal etc to a SEED mixture?
Your mixture adds soil to a block mixture, others have said that's a no-no, as it prevents wicking, which is vital for block making. Seems we have a great deal of conflicting information.

[RayR]

Like DarJones said "It depends on what you start with."
It is not necessary to add fertilizer since the seedling can't utilize soil nutrients until it has developed a root system and the first set of true leaves. Up to that point all the nutrients it needs are in the seed. Depending on your inputs to the mix, you may already have enough fertility, but a small amount of organic dry granular fertilizers won't hurt as it requires microbial activity to make most most of the nutrients plant available over time and the amount needed is so small that it shouldn't affect wicking. It's probably better to add a balanced organic fertilizer with microbial inoculants than adding individual inputs like blood meal and bone meal. The microbes will make not just make nutrients plant available, they produce metabolites that promote root development and fight off damping off pathogens.
If you don't use a dry granular to the mix, you can just add a liquid organic fert to your water.
Lime isn't necessary unless you need to balance the PH to the 6.5-7.0 range. If the mix is predominately peat based, you likely need some lime. Got a PH meter?

[beeman]

Originally Posted by RayR

Like DarJones said "It depends on what you start with."
<snip>
If you don't use a dry granular to the mix, you can just add a liquid organic fert to your water.
Lime isn't necessary unless you need to balance the PH to the 6.5-7.0 range. If the mix is predominately peat based, you likely need some lime. Got a PH meter?

Thank you. That's the answer I was looking for.
So those who advocate adding fertilizers, as I listed, are possibly doing the wrong thing?
My original question asked if excess fertilizer on seedlings would lead to 'leggy' plants? Do you have an observation on that point, please?
Don't have a 'good' Ph meter.

[RayR]

It's impossible to say that someone is doing the wrong thing, especially if they are getting good results. It is possible to say they may be doing unnecessary things and there may be a better way. Creating a seed starting mix for a soil block or whatever is all about experimenting to see what additions may or may not have a beneficial effect on seedling growth and health.
Leggy plants would be a result of insufficient light, not over fertilization. Thigmotropism will have the effect of thickening stems, so hand brushing or using a fan to stimulate the Thigmotropic responce leads to sturdier seedlings.
Over fertilization to the point of excess—in the worst case it would result in root damage and possibly death. The room for error there is more critical for synthetic fertilizers than with organics.

[Fusion_power]

You can get in just as much trouble with organic fertilizers as with synthetic. It is all a matter of how much you put in the soil mix. The major effect of overfertilization is usually retarded uptake of one or more nutrients. This usually shows up as deficient potassium and excess nitrogen. This condition for seedlings results in a plant that grows fairly fast but is VERY susceptible to disease. The leaves are thin and the plant is spindly. As the plant grows, it may be able to use up the excess nitrogen and resume normal growth.

Here are some numbers that will help if you ever have a need to fertilize plants and don't want to make huge mistakes.

1/4 teaspoon of miracle grow 15-30-15 is enough to fertilize 48 plants in a cell tray.

An equivalent organic fertilizer would be to mix 1 pint of 12-12-2 guano with 5 gallons of water and then give a tray of 48 plants 1/2 cup of the mixture.

If you double the amounts of fertilizer either synthetic or organic, you will trigger the excess nitrogen suppressed potassium uptake with resulting plant problems.

Someday, ask me how I know this.

DarJones

[RayR]

Dar, I think you're talking about seabird guano. OK I agree, that's about as hot a source of plant available N from a organic source that you can get. To be used with great caution as a seedling fertilizer.

[beeman]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

<snip> This usually shows up as deficient potassium and excess nitrogen. This condition for seedlings results in a plant that grows fairly fast but is VERY susceptible to disease. The leaves are thin and the plant is spindly. As the plant grows, it may be able to use up the excess nitrogen and resume normal growth.DarJones

OK, I can only suggest I used the wrong term "Leggy" perhaps "Spindly" would have been better.
I do have a greenhouse and use a fan all day to induce 'Thigmotropism' but I did have long spindly plants, due I believe to excess fertilizer. Advice taken from Youtube and someone's seed mixture.
Will know better in future. Thanks for your's and RayR's input.