Potato-leaved

[OneoftheEarls]

I should have kept my post simpler

The link was my investigation into PL varieties that I have....

then I commented on BIG varieties and listed them separately...sorry

I will relist the list later.

Earl

[OneoftheEarls]

Ones with an * are on Tat's Tomatobase as such...

*Amazon Chocolate
*Aunt Gertie's Gold
*Aunt Ginny’s Purple
*Black Pear
*Black Sea Man
*Bloody Butcher
*Blue Fruit
*Blue Ridge Mountain
Brandywines (not All) I agree , but Glick's, Cowlicks, Joyce's, etc.
*Brianna
*Cabin ?? yes...from Spud
*Cherokee Purple -- as Spudakee
Cooper’s Special ?? yes...from Spud
*Depp’s Pink Firefly
*Earl’s Faux
*Elbe
Flathead Monster ?? yes...from Spud
*Galina's Yellow
*Gary O’Sena
*German Pink
*German Queen
Giant Syrian Per Wi-Sunflower not PL I have a variant of hers
*Glacier
*Grandfather Ashlock
*Grandpa Charlie
*Grandpa Willie
*Grub’s Mystery Green
Hillbilly has both versions RL PL agreed
*Japanese Black Trifele
*Julia Child
*KBX from Kelloggs Breakfast
*Kentucky Plate
*Kimberly (Kimberely)
*Kotlas
*Large Mennonite Heritage
*Lenny & Gracie Kentucky Heirloom
*Lillian’s Yellow
*Liz Birt
*Lucky Cross
*Magnus
*Marianna’s Peace
*Matina
*Missouri Pink Love Apple
*Mule Team ?? is it both believe there are both
Old German ?? *Old German Pink
*Olena Ukranian
Orlov Yellow (added) I don't have that
*Polish C
*Polish (Ellis)
*Pruden’s Purple
*Purple Haze
Purple Purfect (added) I don't have that
Red House Freestanding ?? yes...from Spud
Ruby Sport ?? maybe, but from Spud
*Shah/Mikado (White ??) ??
Shirley Amish Red (added) I don't have that
Slava (added) I don't have that
*Soldacki
Spudalucie ?? yes...from Spud
Spudatula
*Spudayellow Strawberry
*Stump of the World (Big Ben)
*Stupice
Ten Foot Large Red Pole ?? yes...from Spud
Throwback Potato Leaf ?? yes...from Spud
Tidwell German ??
*Tiffen Mennonite (added) I do have that
*Victoria
*Vintage Wine
*Wanda’s Potato Top
*Watermelon Beefsteak
Wins All? ? Henderson's Winsall RL
*Yellow Perfection
*Yellow Submarine
Yugoslavian Heart (added) I do have that

I wasn't looking for an inclusive list but just checking it against what I have. I will check on the Wins All and report.

back....http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/65628/ lists it as PL and others list it as RL...
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/65628/

[carolyn137]

Earl, I'm not sure if you're looking for the correct leaf form for a variety , but it looks like you're also looking for leaf variants for single variety in which case I wouldn't say that a PL and RL form of a single variety are necessarily the same. And I explained my reasoning for that in another thread here. Actually I've done that several times.

So I think it's important to recognize that since a PL variant of an original RL can come about in a situation where more genes that just a leaf gene can be altered, that two leaf forms for a single variety doesn't mean they are equivalent in all ways except for leaf form.

Mule Team, should be RL, I've not heard of a PL one. Joe Bratka's Father bred Mule Team, Box Car Willie, Pasture, Great Divide and Red Barn and all are RL.

Perfect Purple should be Pale Perfect Purple as named and bred by Tad Smith and it's a selection from a cross between Purple Price and Ozark Pink and PPP is PL.

Shah Mikado is no doubt the variety White Potato Leaf. Please check the thread on this in the Legacy Forum where Craig described what Shah should be from the original catalog description, which is something like Yellow Brandywine.

Watermelon Beefsteak is RL. The PL variant was wrongly distributed by Seeds by Design in CA

Wins All is RL, it was an improvement on the variety Pink Ponderosa made by the Henderson Seed Co in the 1920's and is RL as is Pink Ponderosa.

I just scanned quickly and may come back later to take a second look.

But I'd like to know if you consider a single variety that exists as either a PL or RL as being the exact same variety in all ways except leaf form? Yes, I do really feel this is an important issue which I don't think many pay attention to which is why I'm harping on it.

[OneoftheEarls]

I don't have the genetic background but I'd lean toward this...

or RL as being the exact same variety in all ways except leaf form


Carol, I was just sorting and confirming some varieties...I'll track them this year but was looking for a "head's up"-thanks!

[mtbigfish]

Thanks Carolyn for confirming
I wasn't positive on Wins All but was on Henderson Win All which I did post back as RL
The Mule Team PL when I grew it 5 years ago I only had PL wish I had kept seed back then. In looking back and It may have been from Blue Ribbon Tomatoes and Tatiana's site says it may be an unstable cross - but were from one company

The RL from the seeds of Mule team I have grown for years were from heirloom Acres and TF


Tania
Have you grown the Mule Team PL recently and did you ever get a stable grow out

Earl
Looks like this is coming together - thanks
Dennis

[travis]

Responding only to those on the list in post #17 that I've grown and gotten non-potato leaf plants.

Purple Haze F1: Regular leaf (from original seed)
Purple Haze F2: Both regular leaf and potato leaf
Purple Haze F3: Both regular leaf and potato leaf

Red House Free Standing: Rugose with some serrated leaf edges (from source who obtained it from Spudleaf Willie)

Spudayellow Strawberry: Regular leaf (from original seed source)

Tidwell German: Regular leaf (from New Hope Seeds)

[OneoftheEarls]

Some growers reported this variety as regular leaf, and some as potato leaf with larger fruits. The origin of this tomato seems to be CV Amishland Seeds, and it is possible that this variety is unstable as the leaf and fruit size variations show.

Amazon Chocolate

[travis]

Originally Posted by travis

Earl, I looked at your list linked in the first post and regarding Amazon Chocolate, I have seeds for both regular leaf and potato leaf versions which grew out of seeds directly from Amishland Seeds. This dual persona was also the case with her so-called Lancaster County Big Pink. So, I don't know the correct leaf shape for those two.

Posted on first page of this discussion.

Also note that Lisa sells another large, black, supposedly Ukrainian tomato, "Giant Black Ukrainian," that looks identical to Amazon Chocolate but grows in a regular leaf vine. Does that tell you something?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by OneoftheEarls

I don't have the genetic background but I'd lean toward this...

or RL as being the exact same variety in all ways except leaf form


Carol, I was just sorting and confirming some varieties...I'll track them this year but was looking for a "head's up"-thanks!

Don't lean too far Earl.

Let me say it again using perhaps some different words.

If one gene mutates and most singlel gene mutations are what's called spontaneous mutations, that mutation is permanent and is inherited.

And it's possible to have a single leaf gene mutate so that a variety goes from RL to PL, but in order to do that the variety has to be heterozygous for leaf form and I won't go into the genetics.

it' isn't know how many or which varieties are heterozygous for leaf form, which means that that that area of the chromosome has genes for both PL and RL, but RL is dominant to PL so being heterozygous the plant is RL.

And there are ways other than a single spontaneous mutation that a variety can go from RL to PL, and they involve not just ONE gene,but can involve several, and so other traits of a PL variety can also be changed as to taste, etc.

let mne give just one example.

Jere Gettle at Baker Creek found a PL variant of Cherokee purple in his tomato patch which he called CP Potato leaf. ROughly at the same time Bill Malin also aquired one which he called Spudakee.

Quite a few folks have grown both in the same season and said that they are NOT the same as to performance, yield and taste. others who have done the same have said they see no significant difference.

All I'm saying is that I would NOT assume that a PL variant is the same as the original RL original form. Differences, or similarities, may be in the eyes and mouths of those folks comparing them but only DNA analysis can determine if one or more than one gene has been altered and that isn't going to happen any time soon, or ever, probably.