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Old April 20, 2016   #61
MissS
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Hi Ron, Well I am glad to hear that you do not have Fungus Gnats. They can cause problems. It sounds like you have Fruit Flies which are much easier to control.

If you wish to put #1 in water then go right ahead. It just can't do much more harm and I see that you have nothing to lose. At this point I haven't much hope for it but maybe it will work.

Not only are your lower leaves turning yellow on #2, so is the one above it. Clip both of them off. Give this plant a mild dose of Seaso. Can you purchase Daconil which is a fungicide over there? I know absolutely nothing about this product, but I ran across this and thought of you. It is made in New Zealand, it is called Nuron-BioSafe. It might be something for you to consider but you would have to learn more about it before trying it out on young cuttings. I am thinking of using the bleach spray on these, but I think that these are just too young for that still.

I am not the best person to be helping you with diseases. I have been lucky so far and have not had to deal with very many infections. Perhaps you should ask for help in the Pest & Disease section. Perhaps someone will chime in and lend you a hand here.

Poor, pitiful #3. Yes, that is the main stem that you are showing. I was debating about what to do with this one the last time that I saw it. There is no question that it is going to lose both leafs. I would cut off the lower one. The upper one is just too close to your new growth to remove. I would allow the plant to abort it on it's own and then remove it when it has dried up. I just so not know if this one will make it.....

Please remember to clean your cutting tool between each and every cut that you make. You could use alcohol or bleach on it as insurance.

I think that I would remove all three of these troubled ones from your growing chamber, if possible, so that you do not infect your healthy plants. I do not know for sure that they are diseased, but I wouldn't want to take the chance. These may just be suffering while they are trying to root. Remember to wash your hands between touching healthy and sickly plants.

If you do remove the plants and put them in a window or some place else, then you can go right ahead and give your other plants the light that they need.

Keep me posted ~ Patti
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Old April 21, 2016   #62
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Patti..Where would I be without you...I just came home and read your post ...had another look at #1 and all I can do is cut the branch off as its basicly lifeless ...I have removed the soil carefully cleaned the stem with a light running water and put it in a water seasol solution..in a small clear glass jar which will enable me to see any root growth ..Its in a side room out of sight out of mind but thats where the roots grew on the initial cutting....Now it seems to me if after a few days this seems to be working and the others are still bad we may well have to consider doing the same to the other two....I am now moving onto #2 and 3.....Now its been a nice sunny day here and late afternoon I went out and checked my greenhouse....To my dismay the two beautiful looking Russian Rose tomatoes had literally exploded?? I did sample the fruit but they were "mushy" ..not to my liking.....
I Will take photos of the three cuttings planted 31st March in the morning ...These look healthy but the branch "structure" may be hindering the overall growth..IE one cutting has an extremely dominant branch and it may well be this needs attended too...Plus I will try and find Daconil in the morning......Regards Ron....

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Old April 21, 2016   #63
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Patti..I have Seasoled everything ...So Its my fault if it all goes wrong....You may recall I mentioned about receiving some Black Tula Laterals from a lady ....I trimmed these and planted them when they were slightly withered as soon as I got home .....The whole four are quite happily growing in the tray next door to the Tasty Tom without any sign of a problem ...I must go to the disease forum and ask about the black leaf tip.....
Today I was down at the scrap metal merchant and here were 20-25 lights that are designed for building alley ways etc...I think they might be Metal Hallide ..I have put photos on the appropriate forum as in the morning i intend to go over and talk to the Merchants owner about what they are and price etc......My friend in Canada who knows all about lights is still hibernating?? Regards Ron
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Old April 21, 2016   #64
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I'm so sorry to hear about your Russian Rose tomatoes. I think that the problem that you had there was that you watered your plants well prior to picking them. If you keep your plants on the dry side before ripening, your fruits will not crack, have better flavor and you will avoid mushiness too. Many of us that grow our plants outdoors will pick all fruits that are showing ANY color at all if it is going to rain in order to prevent the fruits from cracking and becoming mushy. These fruits we will allow to ripen on the counter. So to avoid this in the future just back off on the water while your fruits are ripening or pick them and keep them on the counter if you need to water heavily. If you do this, many of your tomatoes will be much more to your liking.
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Old April 21, 2016   #65
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Ron have you removed #1 to water yet? If so, how did it look and how is it doing?

I have read what Marsha and Carolyn have said about over-fertilization of your plants. I value their judgement. How about taking one of the yellowing plants out of the soil rinsing it off and checking for roots. If they do have roots then I would agree. Re-pot them in new planting medium. Perhaps mix 50/50 of your new soil and the seed starter. When you water them, you might wish to drench them well and flush some of the nutrients out. If you do this then after flushing them out place the container on a sponge to help wick the water out. I know that this if risky since you have moisture control in your soil but it is worth a try. If your plants do not have roots then the nutrients are not your problem. Your browning leaves may have been from the heat from your lights while they were down low as well. We will keep trying to figure it out.
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Old April 23, 2016   #66
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Patti...I have moved #1 to water/seasol 4 days ago ..Its still alive and I think ?? small roots are growing....A big worry for me is the right soil to transplant them to ..Of course I have Seed Raising Mix ,Tomato Mix and the Black Magic ..The Soil Company have never answered my email which disappoints me...The next day its fine I will bike out to what I regard as the best Gardening centre and see what they have in soils.......I want to give the April 1st planted laterals a few more days especially #1 cause if I determine thats its definately growing roots I can then do the same with I think #3 if its not responding to my care...I will of course send over photos ..I actually think they are all holding their own...

My three March 31st laterals however are now approaching 25 days and i am wondering what now?? I have attached photos taken from different angles (two of #1...Two of #2 and three of #3 )...I wonder if they might need transplanting and Pruning ...Just guessing I think the large lower branches will need to come off as they are growing in proportion to the rest of the plant and no doubt taking growth away from the top....Note #3 Photo was taken indoors because of the wind outside and the flash went off and this does change the colour?? Then the wind died down and I got #3a and #3b photos taken back outside again.....

My Black Tula laterals have not missed a beat apart from a couple of leaves that are curling at the tip slightly...Now there is basicly no heat from the lights and I really cannot see heat going downwards into the Freezer ...It has crossed my mind if the light reflecting inside the freezer is a problem.....

Hopefully within 2 weeks I will have another wider freezer all fitted out with ceramic heat bulbs and overhead lights....beside my present freezer....The new one is where I intend to put my Tasty Toms ...hopefully to grow into huge plants like their mother/father ....The other factor which you may have forgotten is the March 31st laterals did not come from the same source as the April 6th ones did....which may be a reason why at this stage there has been less concerns about the earlier March 31st cuttings...

Meantime a broken off plant has been growing all this time beside the cuttings without a problem...but I cannot recall what exactly it is ..Regards Ron
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Old April 23, 2016   #67
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All of these are doing beautifully. What a great job that you have done with them. I would still leave them in these pots until you see more growth from them. I would like for their roots to fill the pots before moving them. That way the roots will not be prone to being damaged with the soil falling off. A good root ball will hold the soil together when you remove the plant from it container. This is important.

You will be removing all of the lower branches as your plants grow. When you do pot these up further, you will be removing the bottom leaves and planting these deeper. I always keep the lowest leaves and branches pruned so that they do not have contact with the soil.

I do like to use organic potting soil without moisture control if it is possible. I also like those with mycorrhizae (Mycorrhizal Fungi) in them. This helps plant strength, vigor and nutrient uptake. Your plants will be stronger if you use them. You may wish to try to find a hydroponic store if there are any around there. I find that our hydroponic stores are much more helpful than our garden centers. These stores seem to have better growing mediums and fertilizers. They also have a wealth of information and are happy to help you. At least where I live, these stores are just better all around.

I did not recall that these cuttings came from two different sources. Your first batch was rather old when we started working with them so I understood their problems. I have been frustrated with this second batch. I thought that using fresh material would be easy!

I am glad to hear that Black from Tula has no issues and is growing nicely for you. I hope that you will enjoy that one. This is how most cuttings go - easy.

Regards, Patti
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Old April 23, 2016   #68
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Patti..Naturally I will do as you say ....Another way of checking these for root growth would surely be gently squeezing the sides of the container to loosen the whole plant from the container inside and very carefully let it slide half out into ones hand..it only takes a split second to see if there is any roots displayed, of course the soil has to hold together.......the April 6th Laterals are planted in the Black Magic soil which really holds together and are in a round polystyrene tub ..The March 31st laterals were from memory in either a Tomato Mix or seed raising mix and both of these I do not think hold together like the black magic and are in a square proper growing container so I think it would be risky and unnecessary unless of course they have produced the root growth hoped for which would hold everything together....Now re watering..I am giving the laterals aprox 2 tablespoons of water every one - two days...I wonder if this is too much ...most just drains into the second container with soil in it that the lateral container sits in..

Now the 31st Laterals were from a lady at a gardening centre (she works there) from her own garden.so I never saw the original plant...The 6th April Laterals came from the gardening centre itself but from their plant growing inside their premises...Now the plant had clearly passed its best but was still growing laterals...The manager picked them and of course I accepted them ..but if I could have chosen them I would have looked for younger ones but I cannot complain ..The 6th April Laterals are still looking good...not as much growth as I would have hoped for but they still look healthy apart from #1 and #3 both which had the yellow leaves ...I am waiting for #3 to get bigger before I cut the 2nd branch off..

Amazingly I was at a metal scrap yard yesterday and got into conversation with a gentleman who works at a Tomato Plant /Soil company a few miles out of the city ....They do a lot of grafting and suppying of plants and soil to a lot of the Garden centres in New Zealand...It turned out that the soil I bought for my greenhouse is a 0.5 out of 10 ?????
So thats another forum I will be studying for information on....It costs me a lot for soil last year and again this year as I preferred using new soil as against last years....I intend to compost it all when my drums are ready cause unless I can reuse the soil its just too much outlay for me....
If the Shipping was quicker I would buy a few of the cheaper LED Grow lights from Ebay ..There is a various of opinions on this but the RGB spectrum lights apparantly do promote growth and that is what I think my plants are missing.....or maybe checking on them all the time gives me the opinion of very slow growth...

I also have a pet heater mat ....which I think I could safely put the yellow plastic yellow tray on with my laterals in it....The ceramic heat bulbs are too fierce to use till I get them fully controled ..The pet mat would be ideal for a small amount of underneath heat...Sorry for my rambling on ...its a long weekend here with our version of Memorial Day tomorrow..

REgards Ron

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Old April 24, 2016   #69
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I have been reading your posts and there is one thing I have noticed. The soil looks to be really wet. If there is excess water there is no place for it to go, the second pot holds it in. I would do away with the soil in the second pot and maybe put in some gravel for excess water to drain into or eliminate them all together. I am glad some of your plants are doing well for you. Did you get a thermometer to check temps? I know ceramic heat bulbs get really hot, so it is important to not over heat your plants. I think recycling your used soil will be fine if you add some compost or manure and maybe some perlite to lighten it up. I had a pet mat for one of my dogs and if it doesn't burn the pet it shouldn't burn the plants, but check with a thermometer. Good luck.
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Old April 24, 2016   #70
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I agree with BettyC-5 that the soil is looking rather wet, especially since you used the Seasol. If you are watering and most of the water is draining out, then you are over watering these containers. I think that 1-2 Tablespoons of water every 3-4 days would be better maybe even longer between waterings. You are wanting the soil just damp not wet. Before you water, your pots should be very light when you pick them up and the top of the soil should be very dry to the touch. For a comparison you could fill a pot with your soil that you are using and set it to the side. Do not water this pot of soil. When you water pick up the pot with only soil and then lift the pot with your lateral. Only water your lateral when it is almost as light as your soil filled pot. Betty's suggestion of using gravel below each pot is a good one.

I would still encourage you to wait a bit before attempting to move the plants from their pots. I just would be afraid of damaging these new roots that you have worked so hard to try to grow. When there is some significant growth, you can be sure that there would be enough roots to support the plant while moving. I know that you are impatient to help these along but it will not be very long now. They will be starting to put on some good growth for you.

What good luck you had finding this man at the scrap yard. He could be a great help to you for finding the right soil for you to use. I'm sorry to hear his review on your growing medium from last year, but from the looks of your plants they did not have much of anything going for them. Hopefully we can get you on track and you will have a much better season this year.

I am not impressed with your garden center. We do need to find you some quality growing medium and some better fertilizers. Both of these will help with the flavor of your tomatoes. If you do not have a hydroponics store are there any other types of stores that carry garden supplies that you can get to easily? Did this gentleman tell you where you could find some good growing medium?

I would go right ahead and compost your old soil. I would also keep it in its own compost pile outdoors because I would not suggest that you use it for another 3 years. I do not know what pathogens attacked your plants this past season. Some diseases are soil born and take 3 years to die off completely. I don't think that this is what infected your plants, but it is better to be safe than sorry. I also recommend that you not compost your tomato vines at the end of the season. If you can I would burn them so as not to infect your new plants for another season. I NEVER compost my tomato vines.

Once your laterals have roots, you do not need to use a heat mat. In fact once they root, stop using it altogether but it does sound quite useful for the initial stages.

How is the little one in the water/Seasol doing?

Regards Patti
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Old April 24, 2016   #71
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Patti...mycorrhizae.....I have just rung the gardening centre (its too much of a gale to bike there) Now because its a holiday and they are short staffed ..I have been told to ring back tomorrow and contact their "specialist"...However they had time to tell me mycorrhizae is available in a bottle to mix with any soil....I hope the weather calms down cause I need a bag of light gravel..

#1 ??? Well I cannot help myself lifting it up in its small glass container and looking at it in natural light ..I think there are some very light roots coming from the stem...One can see them suspended in water but not if I lift the cutting out of its bottle..I presume they drop down against the stem ....I am changing the water every day? It seems to me this is all I can do as if there are roots they will be too delicate ...The small cutting top is holding its own but if it withers away I presume then is the time to give up....

Regards my soil ..Last seasons soil is still half under cover outside in their growing bags in fact I have just found a tomato plant with tomatoes growing in one bag??? ...This seasons soil will have to go outside somewhere also......Both were bought from a local version of Home Depot (a NZ wide centre who undercut everybody as they buy in bulk ) but there is a huge question mark re its quality which has been confirmed by the gentleman I met.....
The company he works for has a lot of peat products as apparantly the area where they produce the soil and their plants is recognised as the best in the country...I am taking everything on board especially re the watering....

I will re photograph my April 6th Laterals tomorrow and see what you think ...Regards Ron
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Old April 25, 2016   #72
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I am not sure it has been mentioned (probably, quite long thread here), but don't cut the growing tip on these, it will delay things considerably (I mean, it has been 1 month since the thread started). Cut flowers/fruit however.
In my experience just about any size is ok (not too huge though, but not too small either or else you don't have a big advantage over starting from seed), 1 week in water in the shade, roots start growing (1 cm long is more than enough, don't wait too long or the plant starves), after one more week in some potting mix, they should start growing normally.
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Old April 26, 2016   #73
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Hi... I finally got a reply to my email re soil etc for cuttings ..Of course most is irrelavant now as it now too late for my cuttings to be put in pumice etc..

************************************************** *******************

They Say.....Seasol is a seaweed based plant tonic, not a fertiliser, which is rich in amino acids, naturally occurring plant growth regulators and also a small amount of potassium, it is ideal for supplementing your watering regime. As you suggest, put your cuttings into perlite or a pumice mix and feed weekly with Seasol as this will help root establishment. Tui do a Certified organic Potting mix, vegetable mix and seed raising mix which has Trichoderma in it, other Tui potting mixes are boosted with seaweed as an alternative to Trichoderma.

You can also dip your cuttings in rooting hormone which you can purchase from all good garden centres and hardware stores to enhance rooting.

Nitrosol is also good but is a liquid blood and bone and is a fertiliser with an NPK. It does not promote rooting like Seasol does but is good once plants are established with roots.

************************************************** *****************

Please find attached photos of my cuttings taken yesterday....Re gards Ron......
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Last edited by murihikukid; April 26, 2016 at 10:11 PM.
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Old April 26, 2016   #74
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Finally *8???
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Old April 26, 2016   #75
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Still poor pitiful #1! The base does have some hair roots formed, but the top is definitely on the decline. It looks as if the stem is withering where you cut off the bottom leaf. I have very little hope for this one. If it were mine I would pitch it. The leaves are shriveled and even if you gave it some light, they just could not provide any nourishment for the plant. The stem is just too damaged. It was a good try but I think that the stem was bruised when the plant fell.

#5 looks pretty good.

#6 Is just a gamble. It depends if it makes some new growth to support the plant before you lose the browning leaf that is there. It is still possible that it may survive.

#7 Looks very good.

#8 This one has a leaf going yellow. It also has two flower buds forming. It is also putting out some new growth which is just what you want to see about now.

Thank you for letting me know that the soil that you grew in came from a home type store and not your garden center. I was very unimpressed if that was the soil that a garden center would sell you. Your garden center has been redeemed! Before you buy any Myco's check back here at the forum. You need to know the expiration date and the types of fungi and bacteria in the bottle or it could just be a waste of your money.You are going to be looking for a product similar to this.

http://www.fungi.com/shop/fungi-for-...y-gardens.html
http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/...uble-1-lb.html
http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/...bles-1-oz.html

Your soil is looking much better. It is not so wet looking. It was nice of the company to get back to you. It is nice to know for future reference.

Regards ~ Patti
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