Advanced ? Bigboy F1 X Betterboy F1

[Stepheninky]

Was wondering if anyone had tried this cross yet. I have both in the garden and since we know they both share one parent. Teddy Jones was wondering if this would be like a back cross of sorts where it is possible to pic up more of the Teddy Jones traits in successive F generations? Or would it be just like doing a complex hybrid cross and then growing that out?

Ideally I would select for desirable traits or traits of interest in successive lines. Just trying to get my head warped around it all.

The working name Bestest Boy LOL Bigboy F1 X Betterboy F1 = Bestest Boy F1 then I would grow Bestest Boy f2 and began selection?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Stepheninky

Was wondering if anyone had tried this cross yet. I have both in the garden and since we know they both share one parent. Teddy Jones was wondering if this would be like a back cross of sorts where it is possible to pic up more of the Teddy Jones traits in successive F generations? Or would it be just like doing a complex hybrid cross and then growing that out?

Ideally I would select for desirable traits or traits of interest in successive lines. Just trying to get my head warped around it all.

The working name Bestest Boy LOL Bigboy F1 X Betterboy F1 = Bestest Boy F1 then I would grow Bestest Boy f2 and began selection?

Many years ago I started to dehybridize Big Boy F1 and did that with Dr. Oved Schifriss as my mentor and it was he who bred Big Boy F1. At the same time I shared with others on several message sites that the midwest heirloom Teddy Jones was one of the parents of Big Boy F1 as well as Better Boy F1 , the latter being bred by Petoseed and when John Peto left Burpee he took Teddy Jones seeds with him to CA when he formed Petoseed.

All to say that Dr. Schifriss told me that I could never get out than about 80% of the Teddy Jones seeds out of Big Boy F1 and I don't see how that would differ with Better Boy F1 and I'm not sure that backcrossing could increase the TJ percentage.

Also noting that when I was talking about TJ a lot online a former staff member at Burpee e-mailed me and said that TJ was the most straggly, disease prone tomato variety he'd ever tended to.

Yes, I know the other parent of Big Boy F1 but Dr, Schifriss asked me to never disclose that and I haven't. I don't know what the other parent of Better Boy F1 is.

I never finished dehybridizing Big Boy F1 b'c out of the first 12 F2 plants there was only one that had pink fruits and Dr, Schifriss said that the fruit size was way too small. At the same time I was working with what became OTV Brandywine doing lots of growouts for that and I think I was still working with the grow out of the cross that led to Tad, which was one of the parents of Brandywine that led to Lucky Cross, Little Lucky and several more.

So I had to choose my priorities.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I have about tomato genetics can take the background info I've given above and contribute more and perhaps additional or even sepak to points where I erred.

[travis]

Yes, I think you might have a chance of capturing Teddy Jones by crossing (TJ x U1)F1 x (TJ x U2F)F1, but only if you grew out about a beezillion plants or so.

However, if as Carolyn says, Teddy Jones is about the most straggly, disease prone variety on the planet, who cares

[Stepheninky]

Originally Posted by travis

Yes, I think you might have a chance of capturing Teddy Jones by crossing (TJ x U1)F1 x (TJ x U2F)F1, but only if you grew out about a beezillion plants or so.

However, if as Carolyn says, Teddy Jones is about the most straggly, disease prone variety on the planet, who cares

Yea to clarify my goal would not necessarily be to recreate Teddy Jones, My goal would probably be more along the lines of getting one or two lines of tomatoes that taste great and do well in my garden. Maybe a large pink and a large red.

I am mostly wanting to see how the hybrid of these two will do as well. I have always had good success with both of these in several gardens in several climates so thought they might be an interesting cross. Also just think it would be a fun thing to do.

TJ had to have had some great traits of some type or I could not understand why it would be used in two of America's most grown hybrids. I believe from the info I read the flavor was one of those traits. So far Knock on wood weather and not a single tomato disease has been my only issue here, This will be my sixth year of this house and I tend to alternate the tomatoes between my two gardens, so the rotation seems to help I guess.

[Stepheninky]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Many years ago I started to dehybridize Big Boy F1 and did that with Dr. Oved Schifriss as my mentor and it was he who bred Big Boy F1. At the same time I shared with others on several message sites that the midwest heirloom Teddy Jones was one of the parents of Big Boy F1 as well as Better Boy F1 , the latter being bred by Petoseed and when John Peto left Burpee he took Teddy Jones seeds with him to CA when he formed Petoseed.

All to say that Dr. Schifriss told me that I could never get out than about 80% of the Teddy Jones seeds out of Big Boy F1 and I don't see how that would differ with Better Boy F1 and I'm not sure that backcrossing could increase the TJ percentage.

Also noting that when I was talking about TJ a lot online a former staff member at Burpee e-mailed me and said that TJ was the most straggly, disease prone tomato variety he'd ever tended to.

Yes, I know the other parent of Big Boy F1 but Dr, Schifriss asked me to never disclose that and I haven't. I don't know what the other parent of Better Boy F1 is.

I never finished dehybridizing Big Boy F1 b'c out of the first 12 F2 plants there was only one that had pink fruits and Dr, Schifriss said that the fruit size was way too small. At the same time I was working with what became OTV Brandywine doing lots of growouts for that and I think I was still working with the grow out of the cross that led to Tad, which was one of the parents of Brandywine that led to Lucky Cross, Little Lucky and several more.

So I had to choose my priorities.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I have about tomato genetics can take the background info I've given above and contribute more and perhaps additional or even sepak to points where I erred.

Thanks for re-posting this here. I did a google search to see if I could find where someone else had tried the cross and saw the Big Boy topic with this in it on Garden web.

Again I do not doubt they messaged you and said TJ was the most straggly, disease prone tomato variety he'd ever tended to., but I just do not know what to make of that statement as I believe it was on Garden web where someone posted, or maybe it was part of the back story why you were trying to get Teddy Jones that someone had requested info on it and they or a parent had tasted the TJ and really liked it or something. (sorry long day at work in 105 F truck trailer. so memory is boggled a bit on the exact details) Anyways just saying I don't know how to process its the worst tomato ever when its genes are part of the two most grow hybrids in the US. At least for how growers. ( disclaimer: Pretty sure Mountain Fresh F1 improved is the current #1 market tomato hybrid in the US. )

[carolyn137]

The person who worked at Burpee and knew Teddy Jones e-mailed me personally and that's how I got the information. He did not say that it was the worst tomato ever as you wrote above, and nor did I. He said it was scraggly and disease prone by which I inferred common foliage diseases/

Teddy Jones was used as one parent for both Big Boy F1 and Better Boy F1, for taste only as Dr. Schifross told me.

In the late 30's Burpee was sending folks into the midwest to look for some new varieties and they found this TJ one and paid the person $24 for ALL seeds and rights to the variety and that allowed him to build a greenhouse.

That's the way it was.

The initial story about Teddy Jones was in a National Gardening magazine many years ago and I tracked down Dr. Schifriss at Rutgers, where he had moved from Burpee. And we had many nice chats although he was hard to understand at first b'c he spoke with such an accent.

He spent one summer with Glenn Drowns of Sandhill Preservation working on squash genetics and varieties b'c that was really his main interest, and I guess he was lonely, his wife was back in NJ, and he knew I had tomato background and called me quite a bit. A really nice man.

It was George Ball,the current owner of Burpee, who told me that when John Peto left Burpee he took TJ seeds with him and then bred Better Boy F1 in CA when he set up Petoseed.

Hope that helps.

Edited to add, per your psot above, that I don't know anyone except for the folks at Burpee , and of course Dr. Schifriss, who ever tasted TJ b'c the seeds were very closely held until John Peto left Burpee and set up Petoseed. And I don't have a clue what caused him to make that move and take some TJ seeds with him. neither Dr. S or George Ball ever spoke about that and quite frankly I never asked.

[Stepheninky]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

The person who worked at Burpee and knew Teddy Jones e-mailed me personally and that's how I got the information. He did not say that it was the worst tomato ever as you wrote above, and nor did I. He said it was scraggly and disease prone by which I inferred common foliage diseases/

Teddy Jones was used as one parent for both Big Boy F1 and Better Boy F1, for taste only as Dr. Schifross told me.

In the late 30's Burpee was sending folks into the midwest to look for some new varieties and they found this TJ one and paid the person $24 for ALL seeds and rights to the variety and that allowed him to build a greenhouse.

That's the way it was.

The initial story about Teddy Jones was in a National Gardening magazine many years ago and I tracked down Dr. Schifriss at Rutgers, where he had moved from Burpee. And we had many nice chats although he was hard to understand at first b'c he spoke with such an accent.

He spent one summer with Glenn Drowns of Sandhill Preservation working on squash genetics and varieties b'c that was really his main interest, and I guess he was lonely, his wife was back in NJ, and he knew I had tomato background and called me quite a bit. A really nice man.

It was George Ball,the current owner of Burpee, who told me that when John Peto left Burpee he took TJ seeds with him and then bred Better Boy F1 in CA when he set up Petoseed.

Hope that helps.

Edited to add, per your psot above, that I don't know anyone except for the folks at Burpee , and of course Dr. Schifriss, who ever tasted TJ b'c the seeds were very closely held until John Peto left Burpee and set up Petoseed. And I don't have a clue what caused him to make that move and take some TJ seeds with him. neither Dr. S or George Ball ever spoke about that and quite frankly I never asked.

That does help to clarify it a bit. I did find a post from someone that did grow outs of Betterboy to F8 with a break down of % of what they got color and shape wise so that at least helped along with this information. This is all just for a personal grow out anyways, had mainly just hoped someone might had tried crossing the two before and seeing what came of it.