Forum area for discussing hybridizing tomatoes in technical terms and information pertinent to trait/variety specific long-term (1+ years) growout projects.
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May 4, 2008 | #1 |
Tomatovillian™
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Is there a list of dominant and recessive traits?
Hi,
I have been reading the posts in this forum, because I have become very interested in tomato genetics. I am not a scientist though, and the gene list is confusing, it doesn't tell me what traits are dominant or recessive or partially dominant or recessive. Maybe I have overlooked something, but I can't seem to see where that is. I am growing out some tomatoes that has the temporary name Kelloggs Breakfast Heart F2. Mark Korney grew the F1, which was supposed to be Kelloggs Breakfast, but produced red heart shaped fruit on a RL plant. I sowed 21 seeds and got 50/50 RL/PL seedlings. This suggests as far as I know that KB has PL in it's background (Cc) and was crossed with a PL variety (cc). My interest in tomato genetics now exploded, but I can't seem to find answers to all my questions anywhere! The little I know is: Yellow skin is dominant to clear skin. Red color is dominant to yellow color. Regular Leaf is dominant to Potato Leaf. Small size is partially dominant to larger size fruit. I wonder about things like: Where does Orange fit in here? Is it considered a variation of yellow? How about shapes? What would be dominant of heart, globe, beefsteak, elongated plum, irregular shapes just to name a few? Where does bicoloration fit in? If you cross a bicolor variety with a single color variety, how would the offspring be? If you cross a tricolor variety with a bicolor variety, how would that offspring be? Also, within the main colors: If you cross a pale yellow (white) variety with a warmer yellow variety (For instance Hugh's x Azoychka), would the warmer yellow be dominant to the pale yellow? Where does the gene that causes the green-when-ripe varieties to stay green fit in? What happens if you cross a det. variety with an ind. variety? Thanks! Hilde |
May 4, 2008 | #2 |
Tomatovillian™
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May 4, 2008 | #3 |
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Hilde, Mark bugged me again about my 2004 growout list and I did find it and will communicate with both of you.
Folks, Hilde is referring to KB that I sent Mark where one plant turned out to be as she described, a red RL heart. He's been asking me what hearts/plums I grew in 2004. Hilde, as I see it there's no reason at all to presume that KB has any PL in it's background, as in Cc, where the C could mutate to c. And that potential could exist with many varieties but the change from RL to PL for a single variety is not that common. The problem is that we have no idea of which varities are heterozygous for leaf form, as in Cc. Yes, we have KBX, a PL KB, but that could have come about in several ways ala mutation and not just a spontaneous one involving just one gene pair. It's possible but not probable as I see it now. In addition to the links given above, you might want to look at the 2nd edition of Carol Deppes book titled How to Breed Your Own Vegetables where there's an extensive list of tomato genes indicating which are dominant and recessive.. And while I still intend to send to you and Mark what I can, it's going to make much more sense when you've grown out your F2 PL and RL plants and see what they give you. If it were a stray seed then you wouldn't be getting PL and RL's in the F2, as you know.
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May 4, 2008 | #4 |
Tomatovillian™
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Morgan, those links will list a lot of genes/traits, but I can't figure out what is recessive and what is dominant from it! Thanks for always being so helpful! I really appreciate it.
Carolyn, I didn't mean to bother you with your notebook, since we do have months ahead of us before we see how the KB Heart F2 looks like. What I want with this post is to learn more about tomato genetics, and I have to start from scratch. That book you recommended might be exactly what I have been looking for, and I will check it out! Thanks! I think this is so much fun and I would like to try to make a cross myself this year, just for the fun of it. If a Cc variety self pollinate, will you get 1/4 PL? It seems to me now that the KB Heart F2 seedlings have variations in leaves, not only the big difference between RL and PL. One of the PL plants is getting quite hairy leaves and the leaf itself is not smooth. I haven't grown so many varieties before, and I don't think I have seen leaves like that before on a tomato plant. I will try to document as much as possible this year. Make it an amateur research project. And then perhaps MAYBE by the end of the season we will be able to make an educated guess to who the other parent is. Thanks! Hilde |
May 4, 2008 | #5 |
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Yes, a Cc X Cc will give you 1/4 cc( PL)
And I'll bet you a LOT of something that you'll never know what the other parent is. Through the years I've had quite a few chance X pollinations and there simply is no way to determine what both parents are, just the maternal parent. Now that's if you grow a lot of varieties as I have in the past, as in hundreds of plants and usually 100 and more different varieties. And I haven't taken the time to grow out many F2's, especially if the taste of the F1 was not all that great. But who knows, maybe you will be able to ID it when I send you and Mark what he asked for, and that was hearts and plums. And he already asked if I was growing any Red PL's and the answer was no, not in the summer of 2004. And yes, I think Deppe's book will be quite helpful to you.
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May 8, 2008 | #6 |
Tomatovillian™
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Tom,
Thanks for the additional information and your in-depth insights. john
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May 8, 2008 | #7 |
Tomatovillian™
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Not waiting up but looking forward to more of your informative writing!
john
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May 12, 2008 | #8 |
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Since I am now at, or near, the location of my daughter's wedding, I have a few moments during the next few days to contact the Rick Tomato folks at Davis, California. I will ask if anyone has a handle on bi-colored breeding genes relating to dominance, etc.
I may look at their gene bank for details of which genes might be available that would make a good test for breeding. I am not around my breeding notes now, so I will have to wing it with them. Tom Wagner |
May 13, 2008 | #9 | ||
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I just off the phone will Roger Cheletat of the Tomato Resources Center here in Davis, California where I am staying at the moment. Unfortunately, he could only take enough time to return my call as he and his associates are busy with field trip preparations.
We talked in some detail about gene expression of (at), a recessive gene called (Apricot) which is noted for having yellow-pink flesh color. We also talked about gf, gs, and gr. Apparently since they are curators of genes rather than breeders, the information we are seeking is not known offhand by Roger. It also seems that some of the genes I have been using have mutated since the phenotypes are not as the descriptors of those genes delineate. Bi-colored fruits have been studied in the past, Roger states, but I will have to explore the database more completely before I talk with him again. The high pigment genes are bouncing around in many of my creations, but I am too rusty right now to explain how I am using the enhanced expression for flesh colors. To give you some idea of the complexity of the subject see these links below. Quote:
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Tom Wagner |
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September 28, 2016 | #10 | |
Buffalo-Niagara Tomato TasteFest™ Co-Founder
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May 12, 2008 | #11 |
Tomatovillian™
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Thanks, Tom!
john
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July 20, 2008 | #12 |
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Couple months later.... anything else to add to this subject? Tom?
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December 27, 2008 | #13 |
Tomatovillian™
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It appears that hp-1 and hp-2 are mutations in two different transcription factors that each control expression of various light regulated genes. Transcription factors are regulatory genes often controlling a cascade of related genes in one or more biochemical pathways. The "high pigment" naturally occuring mutants hp-1 and hp-2 (and their various alleles) are characterized by an exagerated light responsiveness, darker green foliage, and increased fruit pigmentation. The increased fruit pigmentation is the result of increased accumulation or carotenoid pigments (primarily lycopene). Interestingly there is also an inceased level of production and accumulation of various other beneficial phytochemicals, including vitamins C and E. This led Levin et. al. (2003) to state that these characteristics make one or more of these hp genes/alleles attractive candidates for non-GE "functional" tomatoes. The term "functional foods" is now being used to describe foods with enhanced nutritional quality. A recent paper in Nature stirred some controversy reporting the production of GE tomatoes with transcription factors from Snapdragon that up-regulated anthocyanin production. Anthocyanin and carotene are common plant pigments, both now associated with various potential health benefits.
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January 6, 2009 | #14 | |
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Quote:
Patrina
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December 28, 2008 | #15 |
Tomatovillian™
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Good discussion. hp also appears to be associated with very firm fruit which is slow to ripen. I'll have to look up that article in Nature.
frogsleap - I plan to try backcrossing to L. hirsutum. Have to see about plant vigor and seed viability, but I think some of the desirable traits might appear - pest and disease resistance. However, increased sucrose levels may be single gene recessive. Like to incorporate that, though. Last edited by goodwin; December 28, 2008 at 04:35 PM. Reason: clarity |
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