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Old August 3, 2017   #46
carolyn137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakley View Post
Misunderstandings happen all the time face to face...just resolved a bit quicker,.

On heat treatment, I have a similar curiosity as Nan, and as she mentioned, it is not
her adopted method of treatment. We have the circulators, not affordable until just a
few yrs ago. So I doubt this method was even considered for the home gardener.

When it has been mentioned so often how the trading of seed can spread disease, I
I can't wrap my head around why it would be an issue to heat treat.

And...who is heat treating? Commercial hothouse growers? Any big seed suppliers?
If I lived in an area hard hit with problems, I would want the best quality/healthy seed
for a good start. Other factors come into play in our own environment but knowing
seeds are clean out of packet....

This is just quiet conversational thoughts, ....
I don't need answers right away. I'll contact via e-mail those I know are treating this
way. Once I get all my questions orderly.
I know you won't be contacting me since I have never heat treated any tomato seeds.

So let me say that of the many family owed vendors, I don't think any are heat treating except what was said above about Bunny Hop Seeds. Just fermentation.

Most commercial wholesale vendors I know of who produce F1 seed do it with an acid process,and some follow that up with fermentation.

Hot house growers are growers ofr fruits to sell,of the ones I know,so it isn't an issue.

I've already mentioned elsewhere that places with large commercial retail operations,such as Johnny's do sell some seed for the same variety either treated or not treated with hot water ,the former they charge more money for those treated seeds.

And it's also good to remember that much of the seeds sent here to the US,especially F1 seed,is sent here from the Netherlands and Israel and that seed has to have a permit to even be allowed in the US to prove the seed is disease free. No,I don't know what specific procedures they use to help ensure disease free seed.

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Old August 3, 2017   #47
carolyn137
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Oakley, I just thought of something, that happens sometimes.

I think one place you should contact is

https://www.google.com/search?q=Aaro...&bih=790&dpr=1

Aaron Whaley is the son of Kent Whealy, yes,Aaron changed the spelling of the name,who took over SSE when his father was asked/shoved out.

When he was still there I used to edit the tomato section of the public catalog and also make suggestions to him of new ones to produce seed from.

As you'll read in the above link,he does custom Seed production for commercial places and some of those folks include Fred Hempel and his Artisan seeds,as well as Linda at TGS and many more names you'd recognize.
Someone said he was even doing custom seed production for SSE itself.

Yes,there is a section where the public can buy seeds as well,but usually in only large numbers.

My point being, that I know it's those who are paying him and his now large staff money to do that seed production, they are also the ones who would tell him what they want in terms of seed treatment.There's no way he can tell you X wants hot water treatment,B is Ok with fermentation, etc,so if he does answer it will be in generalities and I see no problem with that.

If you do contact him would you please say Hi to him from me,I'm sure he remembers all the time we spent together on that tomato section of the public catalogs.

I keep saying I will contact him,not just to see how he and his wife are doing,but also his kids as well.But I just forget to do it.

Carolyn
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Old August 4, 2017   #48
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Just saw this thread which is timely for me as I have developed bacterial canker in my garden this year and from what I have read, hot water treatment for my tomato seeds is going to be part of my "treatment program" going forward. Probably will have to not grow tomato or pepper plants for 3 years or so in my garden. Growing a rye cover crop will be another part of the "treatment program". Looks like only 5-6 grow bags for tomatoes next year.

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Old August 5, 2017   #49
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Yak, I'm sorry to hear about your garden. It's maddening to watch your plants get sick.

Here is a page that talks about bacterial canker and its treatment:
http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne..._Bacterial.htm

Do you think the seeds you planted this year were infected? Will you be heat-treating seeds you buy/trade for?

Nan
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Old August 6, 2017   #50
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Nan---I have no way of knowing for sure, but my Polish seedlings had a kind of tip burn that reminded me of "The Crud" that we sometimes get on heart varieties. I probably will only grow 5 or 6 tomato plants the next few years, and they will be in grow bags with Promix BX as the soil. I may try to heat treat some seeds for next season. This year the four plants I have in grow bags are completely free of any type of foilage disease, where the 15 plants in the ground are mostly all infected with canker. So I have to try to fix any problem that may be in my garden soil for the future, and once that is done I will probably be heat treating seed to prevent this disease from coming back.
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Old August 6, 2017   #51
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Nan---I have no way of knowing for sure, but my Polish seedlings had a kind of tip burn that reminded me of "The Crud" that we sometimes get on heart varieties. I probably will only grow 5 or 6 tomato plants the next few years, and they will be in grow bags with Promix BX as the soil. I may try to heat treat some seeds for next season. This year the four plants I have in grow bags are completely free of any type of foilage disease, where the 15 plants in the ground are mostly all infected with canker. So I have to try to fix any problem that may be in my garden soil for the future, and once that is done I will probably be heat treating seed to prevent this disease from coming back.
Perhaps you didn't know that I was the one who called it CRUD,maybe you do.

But when I asked Dr Tom Zitter,the Prof at Cornell what might be going on,he knew what I was talking about and said he thought it was an aberrant form of early Blight, which as I se it wouldn't have anything to do with with soilborne diseases.

The CRUD is almost always seen on seedlings inside where the leaves turn brown,I'd take them all off and those poo seedlings would look like Palm trees,but one put outside, they would grow normally,thank heavens.

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Old August 6, 2017   #52
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Here is a question???

Lets say I dont have a soil born disease.
A big wind storm from the north west comes up and fills the sky with dirt.
This dirt has soil born disease in it.
Then it rains this dirt on to my property hundreds of miles away.
Can it then be spread to my property?
Worth
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Old August 6, 2017   #53
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Here is a question???

Lets say I dont have a soil born disease.
A big wind storm from the north west comes up and fills the sky with dirt.
This dirt has soil born disease in it.
Then it rains this dirt on to my property hundreds of miles away.
Can it then be spread to my property?
Worth
Yes.

And I'd have to go back to Keith Muellers website to copy down where he said that. I've posted it before but never saved it.

Rare,but certainly possible and I think he said more often with sandy soil than just plain dirt.

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Old August 6, 2017   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
Here is a question???

Lets say I dont have a soil born disease.
A big wind storm from the north west comes up and fills the sky with dirt.
This dirt has soil born disease in it.
Then it rains this dirt on to my property hundreds of miles away.
Can it then be spread to my property?
Worth
Well, I am no expert on soil borne diseases of tomato. But I don't think that it will become air borne. Unless you have a big hurricane or tornado .
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Old August 7, 2017   #55
Worth1
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Huge dust storms happen all the time.
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Old August 7, 2017   #56
Yak54
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Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
Perhaps you didn't know that I was the one who called it CRUD,maybe you do.

But when I asked Dr Tom Zitter,the Prof at Cornell what might be going on,he knew what I was talking about and said he thought it was an aberrant form of early Blight, which as I se it wouldn't have anything to do with with soilborne diseases.

The CRUD is almost always seen on seedlings inside where the leaves turn brown,I'd take them all off and those poo seedlings would look like Palm trees,but one put outside, they would grow normally,thank heavens.

Carolyn
My point being that what I thought was a case of the crud actually seems to have been the first sign of bacterial canker which showed up on my Polish variety seedlings. I had never seen or heard of the crud showing up on anything but but heart varieties and made a post asking if anyone ever heard of such a happening. My Polish seedlings lagged behind in growth compared to the other nine varieties I was growing and I was puzzled by that. Now that all my plants have been in the ground since the end of May, the bacterial canker has spread to most of them regardless of variety and the puzzle is now clearer to me. It may be that my problem came from bacterial canker infected Polish seed. Once again I find myself learning a lot about things I would rather not have to deal with. So it is with my tomato growing hobby.
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Old August 7, 2017   #57
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Once again I find myself learning a lot about things I would rather not have to deal with. So it is with my tomato growing hobby.
Amen, bro! (she says, removing septoria-addled leaves)
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Old August 7, 2017   #58
carolyn137
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Yes.

And I'd have to go back to Keith Muellers website to copy down where he said that. I've posted it before but never saved it.

Rare,but certainly possible and I think he said more often with sandy soil than just plain dirt.

Carolyn
Worth, when I first turn on the computer for the day I first read the so called breaking news, but this AM I did go to Keith's website, and found he'd redone the whole darn thing so could not find what I told you I'd find for you.

So you either believe me,or not.

Carolyn
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Old August 7, 2017   #59
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Worth, when I first turn on the computer for the day I first read the so called breaking news, but this AM I did go to Keith's website, and found he'd redone the whole darn thing so could not find what I told you I'd find for you.

So you either believe me,or not.

Carolyn
Of course I believe you and have always considered it a factor on the spread of disease.
Sometimes it rains dirt here.
I spent way to much time yesterday looking at pictures infected seed embryos under an electron microscope.
They did talk about dry heat treatment too.
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Old August 8, 2017   #60
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Carolyn,

Perhaps this page is what you are looking for:

http://www.kdcomm.net/~tomato/Tomato.../fusarium.html

It includes a brief mention of wind borne soil diseases.

Jim

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
Worth, when I first turn on the computer for the day I first read the so called breaking news, but this AM I did go to Keith's website, and found he'd redone the whole darn thing so could not find what I told you I'd find for you.

So you either believe me,or not.

Carolyn
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