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Old December 30, 2016   #1
giblet
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Default I have a bad feeling about this...

First plant has a few leaves like this on the oldest/lowest branches.



Second plant also has similar looking leaves, but not exactly the same.





Other than these leaves, the plants look healthy. I'm new to growing tomatoes so I'm not sure if this is something to be worried about. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Old December 30, 2016   #2
gorbelly
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Urgh. A wilt like verticillium would be high on my list of suspicions if I saw that. But whatever it is, it's pretty early in the progression and so hard to diagnose.

If it's a soil wilt like fusarium or verticillium, there's not much you can do, but there's not much urgency to get rid of the plants right away. Those diseases travel slowly through soil.

I would document the affected leaves as well as the whole plant with photos for future reference. Then prune off affected leaves just in case it might be fungal and throw them away (don't compost or leave in garden). Then watch to see what happens. Wilts often progress first along the same branch of the plant or affect one side of the plant first. Fungal disease will pop up more randomly on the plant, although some will affect older leaves on the bottom first.

I would also double check to make sure I'm not overwatering. Wet feet can cause problems that can look like a lot of different things, including wilts. I'd check the moisture levels an inch, two inches down and let things dry out if it feels too wet down there.
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Old December 30, 2016   #3
dmforcier
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How old are the plants?
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Old December 30, 2016   #4
giblet
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How old are the plants?
Planted from seed in mid-October.
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Old December 31, 2016   #5
KarenO
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Looks to me like early blight. I presume you have already removed all affected foliage, if not, do so asap cleaning pruners between plants . Bag and dispose of trimmings.
A good rule of thumb. Any spotty/ diseases/damaged foliage comes off as soon as it is noticed. All foliage below the first cluster of fruit can be removed to prevent splash up of fungal issues from the soil. Clean dry Mulch helps with this as well.
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Last edited by KarenO; December 31, 2016 at 03:46 AM.
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Old January 1, 2017   #6
giblet
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Looks to me like early blight. I presume you have already removed all affected foliage, if not, do so asap cleaning pruners between plants . Bag and dispose of trimmings.
A good rule of thumb. Any spotty/ diseases/damaged foliage comes off as soon as it is noticed. All foliage below the first cluster of fruit can be removed to prevent splash up of fungal issues from the soil. Clean dry Mulch helps with this as well.
KarenO
Thanks, Karen. Does removing the leaves actually slow the disease?

Also, if this is blight or wilt, do I need to pull the plants up? Will they continue to produce? Apart from these leaves the plants look healthy and are just starting to fruit.
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Old January 1, 2017   #7
KarenO
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[QUOTE=giblet;608096]Thanks, Karen. Does removing the leaves actually slow the disease?

Also, if this is blight or wilt, do I need to pull the plants up? Will they continue to produce? Apart from these leaves the plants look healthy and are just starting to fruit.[/QUOTE

Absolutely remove the foliage stat. and for future, ALWAYS remove any spotty or damaged foliage as soon as you see it.
leaving fungus infected foliage in your garden will absolutely contribute to disease spread. You cannot `heal` any damaged foliage by spraying anything, Spraying ONLY prevents further spread, and then, only if you remove the source of infection which is the diseased foliage already present. one day is too long to leave it in the garden. Your plants can survive early blight but you need to get on it asap
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Old January 1, 2017   #8
gorbelly
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It depends on the disease.

If it's a soilborne wilt, the plant will eventually die. As the disease progresses in the plant, fruit will be stunted. Unlike most foliage diseases, soilborne wilts usually cause plants to be fussy and slow in their growth until they suddenly collapse. Most soilborne wilts spread very slowly in soil, so there's no urgency to pull the plant to save other plants just on suspicion. But if you confirm that there is a wilt, it's best to pull plants simply because there's little point in continuing to care for a plant that isn't going to produce well, and you'll need to think about how to deal with the area for the next growing season.

EB doesn't usually require pulling the plant until it's advanced. It's a relatively slow-progressing infection, especially if you prune and spray. Pruning doesn't stop the disease entirely most of the time, but it reduces the amount of inoculum in the plant's vicinity and slows spread. Most sprays available to home gardeners are also not curative--they delay progress by offering some protection to unaffected foliage.

Some fungal disease, like late blight, viruses, etc. will pose a big danger to other plants, making pulling the plant urgent. But you don't seem to have one of those going on.

I agree with pruning any spotty foliage immediately, but I would first take photos of the affected foliage and a snapshot of the whole plant. That way, if things get worse, you have documented the progress of the disease in case you need to get advice/help later.
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Old January 1, 2017   #9
giblet
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Thanks for the suggestions. I have pruned and removed all of the affected leaves and taken lots of photos, so we'll see how it goes. This plant is Corleone which is supposed to be one of the most resistant ones out there. Sigh.

Last edited by giblet; January 1, 2017 at 09:25 PM.
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Old January 1, 2017   #10
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Corleone is resistant to several races of soil wilts. So that reduces the chances that what you have is a wilt. Resistance is not immunity, though, so if you do have a wilt, you might see some symptoms, but still have your plants last long enough to get a decent or even normal harvest.

Disease-resistant hybrids still lag on resistance to non-viral foliage disease, though. Most have been bred for high late-blight resistance and if they are listed as standing up to early blight, it's usually tolerance and not resistance. That means you may still have to spray and prune. It just means the diseases may infect the plant later and/or progress more slowly.

It's very possible to keep something like EB, septoria, bacterial speck/spot under control enough to get a great harvest, though. EB is often not that big of a deal as long as you commit to managing it. Cool, wet conditions can make it harder to manage.
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Old January 1, 2017   #11
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Thanks, gorbelly. I'm still learning about this stuff, so I really appreciate the information!

I live in a hot, humid climate. Right now is our "cool season" so right now at 10:30 am it's 82 degrees with a 62% humidity. By March it will so hot and dry that I think tomatoes will be near impossible. Am hoping I will get at least some this year. I have a ton of still-green tomatoes on a Tycoon plant (a Charger variation, I think) but I don't want to jinx it by being too hopefully.

Most of my heirlooms are succumbing to various diseases/issues, but I wonder if some of it might be irregular watering. I am still learning how much to water them. I have heard that tomatoes should be watered every day in hot climates, but it seems like they only need it every two days.

I'm convinced that the soil in my garden is toxic because so few plants survive that are planted directly in the ground. The beds seem to do better because they are mostly filled with compost and biochar. But this bed in question has three tomato plants and they are all on the bring of something or other.

Here's another one that's in the same bed with photos over a 2.5 week period. It's stopped flowing unfortunately, but has two tomatoes that are holding on. http://imgur.com/a/jVNM0
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Old January 1, 2017   #12
gorbelly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giblet View Post
Most of my heirlooms are succumbing to various diseases/issues, but I wonder if some of it might be irregular watering. I am still learning how much to water them. I have heard that tomatoes should be watered every day in hot climates, but it seems like they only need it every two days.

I'm convinced that the soil in my garden is toxic because so few plants survive that are planted directly in the ground. The beds seem to do better because they are mostly filled with compost and biochar. But this bed in question has three tomato plants and they are all on the bring of something or other.

Here's another one that's in the same bed with photos over a 2.5 week period. It's stopped flowing unfortunately, but has two tomatoes that are holding on. http://imgur.com/a/jVNM0
There's no formula for watering tomatoes. Although heat can make more water necessary, humidity, soil composition, etc. can offset that need.

You may be overwatering your tomatoes. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, overwatering can cause symptoms that can be mistaken for disease.

If your soil is prone to holding moisture and being soggy, you need to be even more careful about watering and may want to amend with some sand to improve drainage. If your raised bed plants are doing better, this could be because the raised beds drain better.

Before watering, dig down a couple inches into the soil. If it's still moist down below the surface, hold off on the watering. The goal is to water as infrequently as possible and to water deeply when you do water so that the moisture penetrates deep into the soil.

The pictures you linked to show some kind of leaf curl. There are many potential causes, but overwatering is a common cause.

Also, if you use any kind of mulch,manure, or compost that is not your own compost, you could have herbicide contamination causing problems. Leaf distortion, stunted growth, misshapen fruit, etc. are all symptoms that can be caused by herbicide. A bioassay may be in order. Never use any chemical weed killer anywhere near your tomatoes. On a warm day, the herbicide can volatilize and drift on the wind and damage your tomatoes, and tomato plants are especially sensitive to the common broadleaf weedkilling chemicals. If your neighbor uses such chemicals, it can affect your plants.
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Old January 2, 2017   #13
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I also think that your second photo shows Early blight which is usually spread by soil splashing up onto the plant's lower leaves. However as it develops it will produce spores which will drop to the ground or be spread to other plants by brushing against them and transferring the spores. This is why you should prune off affected leaves immediately and get rid of them.
I also use a thick mulch of straw to prevent splashing onto the lower leaves. As the plant grows, I prune off all lower leaves of the plant so that they are not touching or close to the ground. I prune off everything below about 18".

Having good air circulation between plants by not crowding them is also helpful.

Your latest pictures show curling leaf margins and this can be caused, not by a disease, but by a plant having conditions that it does not like such as being over or under watered, wrong soil pH or some other soil issue.

Some people poke their finger into the soil and if it is dry below their first knuckle then they know it is time to water. Keeping the soil wet at all times is not a good thing. In my part of the world, tomatoes are supposed to have an inch of water per week as a rule.

If you are concerned about herbicide contamination then you can do a simple test. Take a sample of the soil in question and plant a bean seed in it. If the first leaves emerge all stunted then you have a soil contamination problem. This is an easy way to test for herbicide contamination since beans are very sensitive to this.

Last edited by brownrexx; January 2, 2017 at 10:05 AM.
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Old January 3, 2017   #14
giblet
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I have just removed all lower leaves on my tomato plants and am removing affected leaves immediately.

These three tomatoes that I posted photos of are all in the same raised bed. I've split them out into separate albums and named them 1, 2, 3, so I can make sure that we are talking about the same plants.

#1 Corleone
#2 Basrawya
#3 Black Vernissage

It's strange because they all seem to have something different.

I've just planted some bean seeds. It only takes 2 or 3 days for them to come up here, so we'll have some answers soon. I wonder if this is why so many of my seedlings that are planted directly in the ground come up stunted! I don't use herbicides but the people who lived here before me probably did and my neighbors do.
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