Most Attractive To Bumblebees? - Page 3

joseph · July 13, 2014

So far this year I have found two cultivars and one (possibly hybridized) plant which have the trait of open anther cones and exerted stigmas. They should be very susceptible to cross pollination. It is very early in my tomato flowering season, and frost is expected soon, so I'll watch for more.

Here's photos of what some of the flowers looked like:

Croatian Brandywine: The person that sent it to me said, "The bees were all over this last summer". I can understand why...

DX 52-12. An almost heirloom local variety that was developed specifically for my valley by Alvin Hamson for the Campbell's Soup Company. Alvin taught me to prune apple trees when I was a teenager. I am thrilled that this great variety has a good start towards the traits I am looking for. It is a Moscow type tomato.

An off-type plant that showed up in the Matina row. I suspect it of being a natural hybrid.

Typical Flower on a modern industrial cultivar. All closed up so that the bees are not interested and even if they were it would be hard to achieve cross-pollination. Even the flower petals are pointed in a direction to discourage approach by insects.

beeman · July 13, 2014

Bumble bees as Tomato pollinators? Which is why commercial greenhouse operators buy in lots of bumble bee nests just for this purpose, mainly from Holland.
Quite a bit industry breeding and making Bumble bees for sale for greenhouse pollination.

Labradors2 · July 14, 2014

Joseph,

I thought of you this afternoon when I spotted a bumblebee on my tomato flowers. When I checked the label, it was Fish Lake Oxheart that he liked

.

Linda

joseph · July 14, 2014

Linda: Thanks, adding "Fish Lake Oxheart" to my list of tomatoes to pay closer attention to.

joseph · August 3, 2014

I've been watching bumblebees in the tomato patch this summer. Jagodka has continued to be very attractive to them, and I have identified a couple other cultivars or F1 hybrids that they adore.

I have been going through the motions of making crosses between Jagodka and other cultivars that have open anther cones, or split anther cones, or exerted stigmas, or that are highly attractive to bumblebees. About half of the fruits are swelling as if they got pollinated. In all cases I am using Jagodka as the pollen donor. Additionally, some of the Jagodka plants seem to be somewhat different phenotypes than the others. I'm intending to save seed from them as a separate population. The differences are showing up as plants that grow upright instead of flat against the ground, and different sized fruit, and different colored fruit while green, and different shaped fruit, and different leaf sizes, and different maturity dates. I acknowledge that there may be some subtle environmental influences that can modify phenotype, but I do the best I can. Jagodka last year was also highly attractive to bumblebees so perhaps some natural crosses are showing up.

kath · August 3, 2014

As a result of reading this thread, I've been watching for bees around the tomato plants this year. There was a definite lack of bumblebees and honeybees until the curcurbits began flowering and we've had lots since then. The only tomato flowers that I've seen being visited are the Sungold's, but I'll post again if I see bees on any of the others, which are all open pollinated.

bower · August 3, 2014

Those are great bumble pix, Joseph.

joseph · August 3, 2014

Good thing that digital film is cheap. I sure take a lot of really bad pictures to get a few good ones...

Worth1 · August 3, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseph

Good thing that digital film is cheap. I sure take a lot of really bad pictures to get a few good ones...

I still see people being conservative with digital film.

Worth

spuriousmonkey · August 3, 2014

There are hardly bees here up north. Can't even remember the last time I have seen a bee. But bumblebees were buzzing around my tomato plants until this week. Now they are more rare again. I think they found some better plants now.

bower · August 4, 2014

Joseph, I haven't seen any bees on the tomato row in my garden, but I was tying up plants in my mother's garden today, and there were bumblebees around them. This little row had two Chernomors, two Zolotoe Serdtse and one cherry tomato. The bees were all over Chernomor and digging into ZS as well, but totally skirted the cherry tomato which of course has the tight anther cone labeled 'industrial' in your photo. The plants had become pretty tangled together, but the bees seemed to survey from a foot or two above, swooping by and rejecting the cherry tom before settling on one of the others. The only bees I've seen near my F2 cherry row have just zipped by without hesitatiion...

Just what you would have predicted, I guess! I told her she should save seeds and start a landrace....

**carolyn137** · August 4, 2014

I'd like to suggest that those of you talking about bumble bees and other pollinators read post # 15 that I just posted in the starting from seed Forum

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?p=426235

I think you'll be surpised at a lot of what's said in the two links I gave, especially the second link as to the pros and cons of pollinators, which crops they prefer and why and be sure to read the section on tomatoes as well.

Carolyn

bower · August 5, 2014

Thanks for the reminder Carolyn.

I have to add that, as soon as I posted, the bumblebees made a liar out of me.

I went out to check fruit that are ripening on my row of F2 cherries this morning, and there they were, diligently doing their business. Later in the day, I saw them at it again. Maybe because the prevailing wind changed last night, I really don't know.

In any case, I'll be sticking to the seed from plants in the greenhouse, if I want to be certain they are not cross pollinated.

noinwi · August 5, 2014

I've had bumbles visiting my tomato plants regularly, especially since the white clover patch is spent. I have oxhearts, Black Krim and Stupice in the same bed and the bees visit them all. Even the leftover tom plants in containers get attention. I do have some upright oregano(not marjoram, which I do know honey bees like) in a pot that is covered with some kind of bees that I thought were sweat bees, but if they are supposed to be tiny, that's not them. These bees are slender and dark, about half the size of a honey bee. I'll have to do more ID searching.

Worth1 · August 5, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by noinwi

I've had bumbles visiting my tomato plants regularly, especially since the white clover patch is spent. I have oxhearts, Black Krim and Stupice in the same bed and the bees visit them all. Even the leftover tom plants in containers get attention. I do have some upright oregano(not marjoram, which I do know honey bees like) in a pot that is covered with some kind of bees that I thought were sweat bees, but if they are supposed to be tiny, that's not them. These bees are slender and dark, about half the size of a honey bee. I'll have to do more ID searching.

Sounds like it may be a carpenter bee.

Worth

July 13, 2014	#31
joseph Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cache Valley, N/E of The Great Salt Lake Posts: 1,244	So far this year I have found two cultivars and one (possibly hybridized) plant which have the trait of open anther cones and exerted stigmas. They should be very susceptible to cross pollination. It is very early in my tomato flowering season, and frost is expected soon, so I'll watch for more. Here's photos of what some of the flowers looked like: Croatian Brandywine: The person that sent it to me said, "The bees were all over this last summer". I can understand why... DX 52-12. An almost heirloom local variety that was developed specifically for my valley by Alvin Hamson for the Campbell's Soup Company. Alvin taught me to prune apple trees when I was a teenager. I am thrilled that this great variety has a good start towards the traits I am looking for. It is a Moscow type tomato. An off-type plant that showed up in the Matina row. I suspect it of being a natural hybrid. Typical Flower on a modern industrial cultivar. All closed up so that the bees are not interested and even if they were it would be hard to achieve cross-pollination. Even the flower petals are pointed in a direction to discourage approach by insects. Last edited by joseph; July 13, 2014 at 10:09 PM.

August 4, 2014	#42
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I'd like to suggest that those of you talking about bumble bees and other pollinators read post # 15 that I just posted in the starting from seed Forum http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?p=426235 I think you'll be surpised at a lot of what's said in the two links I gave, especially the second link as to the pros and cons of pollinators, which crops they prefer and why and be sure to read the section on tomatoes as well. Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

July 13, 2014	#32
beeman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 692	Bumble bees as Tomato pollinators? Which is why commercial greenhouse operators buy in lots of bumble bee nests just for this purpose, mainly from Holland. Quite a bit industry breeding and making Bumble bees for sale for greenhouse pollination.

July 14, 2014	#33
Labradors2 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,887	Joseph, I thought of you this afternoon when I spotted a bumblebee on my tomato flowers. When I checked the label, it was Fish Lake Oxheart that he liked . Linda

August 3, 2014	#35
joseph Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cache Valley, N/E of The Great Salt Lake Posts: 1,244	I've been watching bumblebees in the tomato patch this summer. Jagodka has continued to be very attractive to them, and I have identified a couple other cultivars or F1 hybrids that they adore. I have been going through the motions of making crosses between Jagodka and other cultivars that have open anther cones, or split anther cones, or exerted stigmas, or that are highly attractive to bumblebees. About half of the fruits are swelling as if they got pollinated. In all cases I am using Jagodka as the pollen donor. Additionally, some of the Jagodka plants seem to be somewhat different phenotypes than the others. I'm intending to save seed from them as a separate population. The differences are showing up as plants that grow upright instead of flat against the ground, and different sized fruit, and different colored fruit while green, and different shaped fruit, and different leaf sizes, and different maturity dates. I acknowledge that there may be some subtle environmental influences that can modify phenotype, but I do the best I can. Jagodka last year was also highly attractive to bumblebees so perhaps some natural crosses are showing up.

August 3, 2014	#36
kath Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: zone 6b, PA Posts: 5,664	As a result of reading this thread, I've been watching for bees around the tomato plants this year. There was a definite lack of bumblebees and honeybees until the curcurbits began flowering and we've had lots since then. The only tomato flowers that I've seen being visited are the Sungold's, but I'll post again if I see bees on any of the others, which are all open pollinated.

August 3, 2014	#37
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,793	Those are great bumble pix, Joseph.

August 3, 2014	#40
spuriousmonkey Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Finland Posts: 28	There are hardly bees here up north. Can't even remember the last time I have seen a bee. But bumblebees were buzzing around my tomato plants until this week. Now they are more rare again. I think they found some better plants now.

August 5, 2014	#43
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,793	Thanks for the reminder Carolyn. I have to add that, as soon as I posted, the bumblebees made a liar out of me. I went out to check fruit that are ripening on my row of F2 cherries this morning, and there they were, diligently doing their business. Later in the day, I saw them at it again. Maybe because the prevailing wind changed last night, I really don't know. In any case, I'll be sticking to the seed from plants in the greenhouse, if I want to be certain they are not cross pollinated.

August 5, 2014	#44
noinwi Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: PNW Posts: 486	I've had bumbles visiting my tomato plants regularly, especially since the white clover patch is spent. I have oxhearts, Black Krim and Stupice in the same bed and the bees visit them all. Even the leftover tom plants in containers get attention. I do have some upright oregano(not marjoram, which I do know honey bees like) in a pot that is covered with some kind of bees that I thought were sweat bees, but if they are supposed to be tiny, that's not them. These bees are slender and dark, about half the size of a honey bee. I'll have to do more ID searching.