Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Member discussion regarding the methods, varieties and merits of growing tomatoes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 24, 2013   #1
gryffin
Tomatovillian™
 
gryffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 229
Default Wrong Red Brandywine :(

I purchased a pack of Red Brandywine this year from NE Seed. The one seedling that I produced- I thinned before I could discern the leaf type- is potato leafed. I'm disappointed, not sure whether I should grow it out or not.

I'm also wondering if I should start a bunch and see if they are potato leaf as well.
gryffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #2
ppruiett
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Cocioa Beach Fl
Posts: 2
Default

Hello Gryffin, I started a red Brandywine from seed last fall here in Florida. the plant grew well but never produced a flower. I am trying again this spring from the same seeds and it is looking great and is developing quite a few blossoms. I've never tasted a Brandywine so I am really hopeful.
ppruiett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #3
carolyn137
Moderator Emeritus
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gryffin View Post
I purchased a pack of Red Brandywine this year from NE Seed. The one seedling that I produced- I thinned before I could discern the leaf type- is potato leafed. I'm disappointed, not sure whether I should grow it out or not.

I'm also wondering if I should start a bunch and see if they are potato leaf as well.
I don't know NE Seed, but there still is some wrong PL Red Brandywine out there and it's been discussed here before with regard to TotallyTomatoes as well as both Victory Seed and Tomatofest offering wrong PL RB. But those three corrected what they had and went out and got the correct RL RB.

If you want the correct RB which is RL, then I wouldn't plant out your PL ones. But it's really up to you as what you want to do.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #4
gryffin
Tomatovillian™
 
gryffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 229
Default

I knew about the wrong Brandywine being out there. NE Seed was listed on Tomatobase as carrying the right Red Brandywine and the description on the packet seemed right as well (though it didn't mention the leaf type).

I guess I'll start a bunch more seeds to confirm that the packet is not what it says it is.
gryffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #5
travis
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 2,984
Default

Wasn't Earl's Faux initially discovered as a "wrong leaf" potato leaf seedling from among the correct type Red Brandywine seedlings?

But seriously, and as said above, there are many seed vendors selling seed for "Red Brandywine" or "Brandywine Red" that are true-to-type, potato leaf lines; and many people swear by them for production, flavor, etc. Examples: vendors packing seeds for Wal*Mart, Lowes, Home Depot, such as Burpee, Ferry Morse, NP, as well as Plantation/American Seeds.
travis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #6
EarlyStarter
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Petaluma, Ca
Posts: 35
Default

I am not familiar with the brandywine mixup....can someone give a brief explanation? I have grown a potato-leaf brandywine for a few years now, is it a possibility I have been growing something else all along? Or was there simply a brief period where a select few seed vendors were offering something not true to label? Thanks for any clarification on the mater!
EarlyStarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #7
travis
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 2,984
Default

Early, it is generally accepted by the online group of heirloom tomato enthusiasts that "Red Brandywine" is a "regular leaf" (RL), red-fruited (red flesh with yellow epidermis) variety as opposed to "Brandywine" which is a "potato leaf" (PL), pink-fruited (red flesh with clear epidermis) variety.

The heirloom enthusiasts also generally agree that Red Brandywine is best represented by a line referred to as the "Landis Valley Strain," and Brandywine is best represented by a line known as "Sudduth." (These "known as" names are appended to the two varieties as specific descriptors, I guess you might call them, essentially to let you know you are growing the best or truest examples of the two distinct varieties: Red Brandywine-Landis Strain, or Brandywine-Sudduth.)

The conflicts arise when seed vendors, or persons who may not necessarily accept or abide by the same understanding at the online heirloom tomato enthusiasts, distribute seeds for tomato varieties and lines that do not conform to the "Red Brandywine is RL, red fruited such as Red Brandywine-Landis Valley," or "Brandywine is PL, pink fruited such as Brandywine-Sudduth" gospel.

If you are growing a Brandywine that is potato leafed and has a large, slightly flattened, beefsteak type tomato with red flesh, and you peel off some skin, scrape the flesh off the skin fragment, hold it up to the light, and it appears clear rather than tinted yellow, then you most likely are growing Brandywine ... a variety (or different lines of the same or similar variety) for which you may get seeds from a vast number of vendors, seed swappers, bedding plant nurseries, big box stores, etc.

Red Brandywine-Landis Valley Strain is a totally different tomato variety whose fruit, vine, leaves, flavor, etc., is distinctly different from Brandywine-Sudduth.

And then there are the various lines of "Red Brandywine" available widely, and whose foliage is potato leafed, and whose fruit is generally similar to Brandywine-Sudduth EXCEPT that the "Red Brandwine" (PLs) will have a red fleshed fruit with a yellow epidermis, and generally will not have the distinct flavor profile of the wonderful Brandywine-Sudduth, seeds for which I recommend you purchase from Johnny's Selected Seeds ... if you want to grow the true Brandywine tomato that came via the legendary Ben Quisenberry, thence to Johnny's Selected Seeds, who has preserved it all these 30 or so years.

Last edited by travis; April 24, 2013 at 10:55 AM.
travis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #8
EarlyStarter
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Petaluma, Ca
Posts: 35
Default

Thanks for the detailed explanation Travis! That cleared it up perfectly. At the moment I get all of my seeds right here in town at Baker Creek's seed bank. I'll keep your recommendation in mind.
EarlyStarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #9
Dak
Tomatovillian™
 
Dak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 494
Default

Another thank you from me, Travis! Very clear explanation.
Dak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #10
Vespertino
Tomatovillian™
 
Vespertino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southlake, TX
Posts: 743
Default

I'm growing 2 "red brandywine" with the potato leaf- my first tomato plants actually. Sadly the labeling from the nursery I bought them from doesn't have any more information then that. I guess I'll know more when the fruits ripen, Thanks for the info Travis!
Vespertino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #11
gryffin
Tomatovillian™
 
gryffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 229
Default

Travis: Thanks for the tip on Johnny's for the original pink potato leaf Brandywine. I get things from them all the time, and so will add a pack to my next order to try next season. This year I am growing Cowlick's Brandywine.

As for my so-called "Red Brandywine", if I have space (I always start more seedlings than I have room for in case some don't make it at various stages in the process), I will grow it out in my garden to see whether the epidermis is in fact red. If I don't have room, I will donate it to our giving garden plot which is used to produce food to donate to local soup kitchens. That way I'll still hopefully be able to keep an eye out to see what it produces. I won't call it Red Brandywine if I donate it.

In the meantime, I'm going to start several more seeds from the packet and see if they are all potato leaf.

NE Seeds is New England Seed Company. They are on the list of approved vendors on this site and the owner was a member of Tomatoville, at least at one time. If the seedlings are all potato leaf, maybe I should contact them.
gryffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #12
carolyn137
Moderator Emeritus
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gryffin View Post
I knew about the wrong Brandywine being out there. NE Seed was listed on Tomatobase as carrying the right Red Brandywine and the description on the packet seemed right as well (though it didn't mention the leaf type).

I guess I'll start a bunch more seeds to confirm that the packet is not what it says it is.
All Tania did was to list it as a seed company that sold seeds for RB, she said nothing about them, or any of the other seed companies that were listing it for 2013 that I could see when I just checked about selling correct seed for varieties.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #13
carolyn137
Moderator Emeritus
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gryffin View Post
Travis: Thanks for the tip on Johnny's for the original pink potato leaf Brandywine. I get things from them all the time, and so will add a pack to my next order to try next season. This year I am growing Cowlick's Brandywine.

As for my so-called "Red Brandywine", if I have space (I always start more seedlings than I have room for in case some don't make it at various stages in the process), I will grow it out in my garden to see whether the epidermis is in fact red. If I don't have room, I will donate it to our giving garden plot which is used to produce food to donate to local soup kitchens. That way I'll still hopefully be able to keep an eye out to see what it produces. I won't call it Red Brandywine if I donate it.

In the meantime, I'm going to start several more seeds from the packet and see if they are all potato leaf.

NE Seeds is New England Seed Company. They are on the list of approved vendors on this site and the owner was a member of Tomatoville, at least at one time. If the seedlings are all potato leaf, maybe I should contact them.
Yes, on the list of approved vendors here at Tville, but approved does not mean that all companies have correct seeds all the time, far from it.

It often depends on where they get their seeds from,whether home produced, bought wholesale off the shelf, subcontracted out, or a combo of those means of getting seeds to list.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #14
travis
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 2,984
Default

After viewing New England Seed Co.'s entire listing of tomato varieties, I presume they buy most or all of their tomato seeds from bulk suppliers.
travis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2013   #15
carolyn137
Moderator Emeritus
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
Default

Travis, aka Bill, just a few additional comments.

It was Craig LeHoullier who first sent the Sudduth/Quisenberry to Rob Johnston at Johnny's, I don't remember the year, Craig would, but not 30 years ago, that I know. I think Craig got it from Ken Ettlinger of LI seeds and I know you know about Ken.

Second, the person who got what we know as the correct Red Brandywine out of an SSE Yearbook is Tom Hauch, who owns Heirloom Seeds in PA, a great website for seeds actually that few seem to mention. He considers it his signature variety.

And it was Tom who sent the seeds to Miller at the Landis Museum in PA who followed up with the history that we know of re RB.

So to be correct, the prototype of RB rests with Tom Hauch, who has maintained itall these years and sells a lot of seed for it. A few years ago I wanted to compare my own RB that I got from a fellow SSE member many years ago with Tom's, so I asked Tom if he would send me seeds of his, and the plants and fruits were identical. I offered my RB seeds in many seed offerfs here and there.

Actually I remember asking him, or tryiong to b'c Hauch is a commonlast name in his area ofP, Ithought Ihad the right phone number and there was a recording that answered, all in hoch Deuch, aka quasi German,and wasI ever surprised, I couldn't follow what was being said even though I do know some German, so hung up. Then e-mailed him and he said yes, I had the right # and he did that so he wouldn't be getting wrong calls, salesfolks and the like.

When I kept bugging Linda at TG about her listing wrong RB's she went out and got seeds from the Landis Museum, listed them and called them a strain, which they aren't for there are no strains of RB. I don't know why she went there for there are several places known to be selling seeds for the correct RB.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:11 PM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2022 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★