How Old is too old for saving seeds

ronbrew · February 17, 2008

Hello,
Sorry if this has been covered but I could not find it. I have been buying and using seeds of Pepper and Tomato plants for about 5 years now. I don't use very many seeds when I buy a packet because I only need a couple of plants. What I have been doing is using any seeds I have vs. buying a new package of something I want to grow again. A couple of times I've found that when I first get a packet of lets say a tomato seed I get the best results in terms of ease to germinate and overall good plant growth and crop. A couple of times I've tried older seeds and I have not had as good luck using the same package of seeds. I get germination but the plants fruit ends up not growing as well or tasting as good as my first try. I'm wondering if there is any time frame where I should buy new seeds even though I have a lot of seeds leftover. I hate to waste as they say and then think a seed is a seed and if it germinates then it must be good. Anyway is there any feedback on what people have found with their older seeds. I would save seeds every time I grow but I have a small garden with many things going on and I keep thinking the seeds I collect will not be pure or have some crosses.
Thanks for any help.

Ron

**nctomatoman** · February 17, 2008

Each variety of seed has different survival durations. tomatoes, if kept dry (I store mine in my office in plastic snap cap vials) can last 10-15 years or more, with excellent germination for up to 8 years or more - with slight drop off after that. Peppers don't last nearly as long in my experience - dropping off significantly after 3-5 years. I don't have enough experience with eggplant to say for sure, but up to 6 or 7 years seem OK.

cottonpicker · February 17, 2008

I have germinated 7 year old tomato seed with no problem but the plants seem weaker... ie. less vigorous... than fresher seeds.

LarryD

**nctomatoman** · February 17, 2008

Just to comment on what Cottonpicker just said - I do find that much older seed doesn't quite jump out of the growing medium as fast and some can seem a bit less vigorous, but they do, following time and transplanting, catch up and are the equivalent of the plants from fresh seed - I grew Cherokee Purple and cherokee Chocolate from 11 year old seed last year and they were monster plants that produced perfectly.

cottonpicker · February 17, 2008

Entirely possible. Mother Nature reigns supreme. All things are possible........
LarryD

**carolyn137** · February 17, 2008

I agree with Craig on the longevity of tomato seed viability. I've done a number of seed offers in the past, two at GW and two here, and with the two at GW I offered seeds that were up to 10-15 years old and asked for feedback and folks were amazed that the seeds could have such good viability.

However, I can offer fresh seed from 2007, ask for feedback and know that that percentage will range from zero, yes zero, to 100%. And that's b/c folks use different artificial mixes, use bottom heat or not, cook things by not ensuring air circulation, and on and on.

Also, when you buy seed you see a packed for date and that tells that the seed was packed for that year, but doesn't tell you when the seed was produced.

Most of the more reliable seed sources store their seeds properly and also do germination tests.

My personal best is germinating tomato seed that was 22 yo and the record is germination of tomato seed that was 50 yo.

**nctomatoman** · February 17, 2008

I am going to do an interesting experiment this year - am going to seed a flat (50 cells) of varieties that I began my heirloom tomato growing habit, returning to seeds saved between 1986 and 1991 - the majority of which were saved in 1988 and 1989, so will get a good sampling of germination percentage on seed between 17 and 22 years. I am going to plant 20 or so seeds in each cell to give me a reasonable representation....let's see what happens!

robin303 · February 17, 2008

I have asked that before also and it seems the answer I get is they freeze them.
Planted radishes this year and they were two years old and not one came up??? Waste of peat pots.

kimpossible · February 17, 2008

Craig, I'm looking forward to the results of that experiment. It should be very enlightening (one way, or the other!)

retiree · February 18, 2008

Hello

I will also be anxious to hear the results of this experiment.

I'm always amazed at how long tomato seeds can survive.

Thanks Craig

Neil(Canada)

**nctomatoman** · February 18, 2008

Here are the varieties I am going to start, with the age of the seed...this list may change once I start gathering the vials, since I may not have any seed left of some of these...but I have plenty of other old ones to substitute!

Persimmon 21
Czech's Excellent Yellow 21
Yellow Cherry 21
Ruby Gold 21
Pineapple 21
Sabre 20
Glesener 20
Valencia 20
Yellow Brimmer 20
Peron 20
Georgia Streak 19
Banana Legs 19
Old Brooks 19
Prudens Purple 19
Wolford Wonder 19
Tice's Yellow Better Boy 19
Anna Russian 19
Sutton 19
Hunt Family Favorite 19
German Garden Time 19
Holy Land Yellow 19
Viva 19
Lillian's Red Kansas Paste 19
Fritsche 19
Golden Oxheart 19
Firesteel 19
Goldie 19
Mortgage Lifter Pesta Strain 15
Tappy's Finest 19
Verna Orange 18
Giant Syrian 18
Burcham New Generation 18
Madara 18
Armenian 18
Transparent 18
Una Hartsock 18
Syrian Globe 18
Black Krim 18
Magellan Burgess Yellow 18
Belgiam 18
Magellan Burgess Purple 18
Black 17
Aztec 17
McClintock 17
Marizol Gold 17
Marizol Purple 17
German Queen 17
Gogosha 17
Alyx Little Sun 17
Vermillion 17

JimmyWu · February 18, 2008

Dang !!!!!!

-Jimmy

**carolyn137** · February 18, 2008

I'll also be doing, or ask someone else to help, an interesting experiment.

Today someone was helping me go thru several large boxes of stuff to look for my greatgrandfather's discharge papers from the Civil War b'c my brother has been asking about them.

I found several packs of seed, all heirlooms, sent to me by Don Podolia, now deceased, who over the years had sent me some great ones. They appear to date from 1991-1993.

So wish me/someone some good luck with these.

johno · February 19, 2008

Odd that I stumbled onto this thread... I was doing some 'de-cluttering' today, and found some 12 year old seeds of various types. No tomatoes, and the peppers spilled out, but I think there are some eggplant seeds in there.

**nctomatoman** · February 22, 2008

See my post above for seed age and variety - the clock has started - seeds started today, February 22. Let's see how they do!

February 17, 2008	#1
ronbrew Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bay Area California Posts: 23	How Old is too old for saving seeds Hello, Sorry if this has been covered but I could not find it. I have been buying and using seeds of Pepper and Tomato plants for about 5 years now. I don't use very many seeds when I buy a packet because I only need a couple of plants. What I have been doing is using any seeds I have vs. buying a new package of something I want to grow again. A couple of times I've found that when I first get a packet of lets say a tomato seed I get the best results in terms of ease to germinate and overall good plant growth and crop. A couple of times I've tried older seeds and I have not had as good luck using the same package of seeds. I get germination but the plants fruit ends up not growing as well or tasting as good as my first try. I'm wondering if there is any time frame where I should buy new seeds even though I have a lot of seeds leftover. I hate to waste as they say and then think a seed is a seed and if it germinates then it must be good. Anyway is there any feedback on what people have found with their older seeds. I would save seeds every time I grow but I have a small garden with many things going on and I keep thinking the seeds I collect will not be pure or have some crosses. Thanks for any help. Ron

February 17, 2008	#2
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Each variety of seed has different survival durations. tomatoes, if kept dry (I store mine in my office in plastic snap cap vials) can last 10-15 years or more, with excellent germination for up to 8 years or more - with slight drop off after that. Peppers don't last nearly as long in my experience - dropping off significantly after 3-5 years. I don't have enough experience with eggplant to say for sure, but up to 6 or 7 years seem OK. __________________ Craig

February 17, 2008	#3
cottonpicker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SE PA..near Valley Forge Posts: 839	I have germinated 7 year old tomato seed with no problem but the plants seem weaker... ie. less vigorous... than fresher seeds. LarryD __________________ "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause". Victor Hugo

February 17, 2008	#4
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Just to comment on what Cottonpicker just said - I do find that much older seed doesn't quite jump out of the growing medium as fast and some can seem a bit less vigorous, but they do, following time and transplanting, catch up and are the equivalent of the plants from fresh seed - I grew Cherokee Purple and cherokee Chocolate from 11 year old seed last year and they were monster plants that produced perfectly. __________________ Craig

February 17, 2008	#5
cottonpicker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SE PA..near Valley Forge Posts: 839	Entirely possible. Mother Nature reigns supreme. All things are possible........ LarryD __________________ "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause". Victor Hugo

February 17, 2008	#6
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I agree with Craig on the longevity of tomato seed viability. I've done a number of seed offers in the past, two at GW and two here, and with the two at GW I offered seeds that were up to 10-15 years old and asked for feedback and folks were amazed that the seeds could have such good viability. However, I can offer fresh seed from 2007, ask for feedback and know that that percentage will range from zero, yes zero, to 100%. And that's b/c folks use different artificial mixes, use bottom heat or not, cook things by not ensuring air circulation, and on and on. Also, when you buy seed you see a packed for date and that tells that the seed was packed for that year, but doesn't tell you when the seed was produced. Most of the more reliable seed sources store their seeds properly and also do germination tests. My personal best is germinating tomato seed that was 22 yo and the record is germination of tomato seed that was 50 yo. __________________ Carolyn

February 17, 2008	#8
robin303 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Austin, TX Zone 8b Posts: 531	I have asked that before also and it seems the answer I get is they freeze them. Planted radishes this year and they were two years old and not one came up??? Waste of peat pots.

February 17, 2008	#9
kimpossible Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Z5b SW Ont Canada Posts: 767	Craig, I'm looking forward to the results of that experiment. It should be very enlightening (one way, or the other!) __________________ *So Many Tomatoes ... So Little Time*

February 18, 2008	#10
retiree Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 404	Hello I will also be anxious to hear the results of this experiment. I'm always amazed at how long tomato seeds can survive. Thanks Craig Neil(Canada)

February 18, 2008	#12
JimmyWu Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 100	Dang !!!!!! -Jimmy __________________ All Typos are Crappyrighted @

February 19, 2008	#14
johno Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arkansas zone 6b Posts: 441	Odd that I stumbled onto this thread... I was doing some 'de-cluttering' today, and found some 12 year old seeds of various types. No tomatoes, and the peppers spilled out, but I think there are some eggplant seeds in there. __________________ You create your own universe as you go along. Winston Churchill

February 22, 2008	#15
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	See my post above for seed age and variety - the clock has started - seeds started today, February 22. Let's see how they do! __________________ Craig