Soil Test Results: VERY High in Ca/Mg, need help

[outsiders71]

So I'm trying to wrap my head around the soil test results I just received. I've been having problems growing anything on this plot of land I have. Everything seems to be stunted, lighter green color, and just not robust. Late spring/summer I added 6 truck beds full of aged manure to my garden area to loosen the soil up and hoped I could get some tomatoes this year. Looks like another failure. Anyways here's the results:

Garden bed:


Fruit tree/Yard/Unamended:


So from what I can figure out my plot unamended is very alkaline, with too much Ca and Mg. My soil is very heavy clay and I wonder if the excessive amounts of Ca is the reason why.

I also see that my garden bed with the last 2-3 years of amending is getting better. But still I can't grow tomatoes or peppers or anything in it. It still is excessively high in Ca and Mg as well.

How does one go about treating this kind of problem? Obviously the addition of compost/organic matter over time will help but this is only possible in the beds I have not the whole property.

[KarenO]

too much of a good thing. the mineral salts are from the manure and will diminish with time. not sure how many square feet of garden 6 truckloads of manure went into but that's a lot of manure. I would add straight leaf mould or chopped straw, peat or fine bark etc, no further manure or compost for a year or two. consider planting then tilling in a cover crop like clover or buckwheat as well.
strange that nitrogen is not mentioned in these results? You added no lime at all in the orchard unammended area? your results are pretty unusual in the unammended area if you added no fertilizer, lime etc.
It is a good idea to always ensure at least 3 months of mellowing time before planting in soil to which large volumes of any ammendments have been added. I would think the manured beds will be a lot better next year and you should be able to grow tomatoes and peppers in it by then.

Karen

[outsiders71]

Originally Posted by KarenO

too much of a good thing. the mineral salts are from the manure and will diminish with time. not sure how many square feet of garden 6 truckloads of manure went into but that's a lot of manure. I would add straight leaf mould or chopped straw, peat or fine bark etc, no further manure or compost for a year or two. consider planting then tilling in a cover crop like clover or buckwheat as well.
strange that nitrogen is not mentioned in these results? You added no lime at all in the orchard unammended area? your results are pretty unusual in the unammended area if you added no fertilizer, lime etc.
It is a good idea to always ensure at least 3 months of mellowing time before planting in soil to which large volumes of any ammendments have been added. I would think the manured beds will be a lot better next year and you should be able to grow tomatoes and peppers in it by then.

Karen

The garden bed is roughly ~672 sq ft. For the last 2 years I've been adding shredded leaves to the area in the fall. Last summer I added pine animal bedding to help loosen up the soil. My property is hard clay that is like concrete when dry, liquid cement when wet. This year I had access to lots of aged manure, and it was free for the taking (besides labor and gas to get it), so I added that and it helped with the texture of the soil tremendously. I did notice a stench to the soil (anaerobic?) before ammending with the manure, probably due to the lack of air flow in the soil. Since adding the manure it smells more earthy. I was hoping for some better results in the garden though :/.

As for the unammended area/fruit tree area yeah nothing was added. I planted 5 fruit trees last year in a section of my backyard, maybe 40 feet from the garden area. All I did was til the ground to loosen it up and planted them. I selected trees that were supposed to thrive better in heavier soils. They are barely 2-21/2 ft tall and look sick. I also selected some dirt from the front of my property and it had the same results as this unammended area. So my native soil is the results of the non ammended area. I just don't know how to go about fixing this uggh...

[tsipgolf12]

Originally Posted by outsiders71

The garden bed is roughly ~672 sq ft. For the last 2 years I've been adding shredded leaves to the area in the fall. Last summer I added pine animal bedding to help loosen up the soil. My property is hard clay that is like concrete when dry, liquid cement when wet. This year I had access to lots of aged manure, and it was free for the taking (besides labor and gas to get it), so I added that and it helped with the texture of the soil tremendously. I did notice a stench to the soil (anaerobic?) before ammending with the manure, probably due to the lack of air flow in the soil. Since adding the manure it smells more earthy. I was hoping for some better results in the garden though :/.

As for the unammended area/fruit tree area yeah nothing was added. I planted 5 fruit trees last year in a section of my backyard, maybe 40 feet from the garden area. All I did was til the ground to loosen it up and planted them. I selected trees that were supposed to thrive better in heavier soils. They are barely 2-21/2 ft tall and look sick. I also selected some dirt from the front of my property and it had the same results as this unammended area. So my native soil is the results of the non ammended area. I just don't know how to go about fixing this uggh...

Read The Intelligent Gardener: Growing Nutrient Dense Food by Steve Solomon. It will help
you decipher your soil test, give you the appropriate items to add to meet your soils needs, and give you a method for loosening up your clad soil. I added a lot of composted horse
manure to my garden earlier this year and unknowingly unbalanced my soil leading to less
than spectacular results this season. After reading his book I became aware of my error and now have a plan for balancing my soils minerals and then growing high density nutrient
rich foods.

RWG

[mensplace]

I would call:

Greg D. Hoyt

Mountain Horticultural Crops Research & Extension
455 Research Drive
Mills River, NC 28759

Room: Fletcher
Office Phone: 828.654.8590
Email: greg_hoyt@ncsu.edu

Either he could make recommendations or recommend a best source at NC State

[Redbaron]

I think what you need to do now, is plant a diverse cover crop blend. You'll need a warm season grass, a cool season grass, a warm season forb (tomatoes will do) and a cool season forb as a minimum.

You can start by planting a relatively short summer grass like millet and also a fast growing companion forb like basil, marigolds, cilantro, bush beans, tillage radishes, beets, carrots or all of them .... between your already established tomatoes.

After the tomatoes finally give up the ghost, mow the whole thing leaving the clippings on the ground as mulch and plant winter peas and winter wheat or cereal rye or some already pre blended fall cover crop blend such as this: link.

Be sure you inoculate the seeds. This one worked well for me this year: link There are also specific inoculants for the legumes. link

Next spring before planting your tomatoes, mow the cover crop, rake it up, sprinkle coffee grounds on the ground and cover it with paper 6 layers deep or use cardboard and cover the paper with the mulch, plus whatever new mulch material you can find like grass clippings, chopped leaves, hay, straw etc... about 3 to 6 inches deep, but be sure the material you use is herbicide free. Be sure to plant a diverse companion crop with your tomatoes next year.

I am giving you this advise because biological systems are self regulating, if you let them do their job. This will give you the best chances of the biology in the soil fixing your mess with the least chances of making it worse. Nothing is guaranteed in agriculture though. Good luck.

[Cole_Robbie]

There's a few cover crops like groundhog radish that can shoot giant tap roots into the hardest clay, aerating it for the following season as they decompose, as well as attracting worms.

[outsiders71]

Thanks for the recommendations. I have used cover crops every year, and have the best luck with the fall crops of Winter Vetch/Winter Rye. Tillage radish doesn't work on my clay soils, it only gets about 3 inches big and is stunted. Phosphorus must be either lacking or tied up.

[Tracydr]

Might try beets or chard between the legumes. They tend to like high pH and high calcium.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

Might try beets or chard between the legumes. They tend to like high pH and high calcium.

And Magnesium

[outsiders71]

Interesting you mention beets and chard. My beets are in the first row of my garden and seem to be doing OK. The chard 2 rows down from the beets haven't done anything since I put them in the ground (started them indoors).

[drew51]

I think I would give up on the ground and just make raised beds. use garden soil, peat, compost and pine bark fines. That would be acidic as the ground will to some extent neutralize it.
I use both raised bed and in ground plantings.
Rock Phosphate can add phosphorus. Large amounts of sulfur can convert the calcium to gypsum which is stable and neutral in PH. It will take a year to do so. Magnesium is very soluable and should in time go away.
Potassium Chloride could be used to add potassium.
Maybe try and amend soil but put a few raised beds in for tomatoes and such.
I would also look for a place that will tell you what you need to do. No nitrogen analysis? No PH? Maybe some of the suggestions are worth looking in to.
Most universities will give you exact amounts of products to add. MSU here in Michigan tells you what you need to do to correct problem when you summit a soil test.

[Keiththibodeaux]

So, what is missing in the macros, Nitrogen. You have likely temporarily tied it up. You can add it now, or wait for nature run its cycle. Myself, I would add it.