Nematode Control Failure

[JackE]

Two years of clean fallow and regular deep plowing failed to kill the RKN in an acre of East Texas sandy soil with low organic matter - despite the hottest, driest summer on record last year!

We planted greens there in Sept, while the soil temp was still warm enough for RKN activity, and I was absolutely devastated when nematodes attacked and stunted the mustard in some parts of the field. Mustard is not one of their favorite hosts, and they must have been VERY hungry! I shudder to think what they would do to other crops next year! I'm glad we found-out now instead of losing a whole field of tomatoes!

I've tried and failed with every nem control that came out for years and years, but I really thought this one would work, especially with that hot, dry summer. We turned the soil over every month with a 14" middle buster and allowed nothing to grow there. It was supposed to starve and dry them out - but it appears to have only strengthened their resolve and made them tougher!!

The eggs stay dormant in the soil - didn't know that until too late. Wadda bummer!

I guess RKN resistant crops, rotated with corn is our only option. Were considering resistant sweet potatoes and Dixie Lee crowder peas.

Jack

[lakelady]

Jack, try planting those french marigolds I sent you . They just might work.....I'm told you need to plant a lot of them in between crops and then plow over so they break down in the soil afterwards too... need more seeds?

[JackE]

Hi Antoniette -

We're looking foward to planting those in the spring in the gardens around the house. My wife loves French Marigolds and used to save the seed every year. She lost the cultivar a few years ago and when she saw those, they quickly disappeared from my desk.

So they are VERY MUCH appreciated and we'll get a lot of enjoyment from them. Out in the big garden, I'm going to plant resistant vegetables. Only about one acre, out of three, is infested so far. Our problem is no organic matter in this sand we have for soil and no practical way to get any in there - amendments leach-out as fast as I add them.

Marigolds will not help without substantial organic matter in the soil, because whatever it is the nems don't like, disappears with the first rain. The sand won't hold the toxic organic compounds from the Marigolds - or from any other organic material.

Hope y'all had a nice Thanksgiving. Stay in touch - let me know when you plant the okra. Okra is hard to transplant but necessary up north. How long is your growing season? - okra needs several warm months.

In the "bad old days", we could buy Vapam fumigant over-the-counter at the local feed store, in small quantities with no license - and we would pour the Vapam on the nems with no respirator while chain-smoking Camels.

Jack

[lakelady]

Oh...I didn't consider the sandy soil, so that could be a problem then. Well, at least your wife enjoys marigolds! They are very cheerful for sure!

I'm looking forward to growing the Okra...from what I've seen online, it is possible here, but likely I won't get to pick any until August and it probably wont' be nearly as productive as it is down south. But , it will be fun to grow all the same, so thank you! I'll definately let you know when I'm ready !

[gourmetgardener]

Try growing a trap crop, treat it with Vydate-L, and plow it under just before bloom.

[JackE]

We have a member of our church who serves as technical adviser for our project, and we can't use any chemical without his approval. He has a degree in agronomy and a chemical license but he's a range and pasture man - manages a 5000 acre cattle ranch - and so far he has not approved any of those chemicals - I've asked him about Telone, Vydate, Vapam, Mocap. He read-up on them and decided that we/he don't have the expertise, or the proper equipment, to safely use them.

If we had a real row crop farmer in our church he'd probably have it all fumigated for us by now. But nobody around here knows anything about field agriculture - it's all timber and cattle. This soil is no good for anything except pine trees and pasture. The nearest farming is the rice area down on the Gulf.

Jack

EDIT - I'll see our tech man in few minutes (Sunday morning) - since the clean fallow was HIS idea, maybe he'll soften his opposition to Vydate. LOL

[JackE]

Gourmetgardener -

I think we're going to be able to take another look at Vydate L after these disappointing results. Thank you for the suggestion. Our main concern is safety for ourselves and customers. I have read the label and it's approved for most vegetable crops - and it can be applied through drip irrigation.

What I couldn't find on the label was DHI's - what is the days to harvest requirement on tomatoes? The label seems to indicate a systemic mode of action. And it also seems to
require regular applications rather than a single knockdown every few years, which opens groundwater and well safety issues.

Any links you can refer us to, as well as your own experience with the product, will be greatly appreciated.

Jack

[bcday]

It does look like it's systemic:
http://www2.dupont.com/Production_Ag...fs/H-95402.pdf

"Foliar applications of Vydate® translocate downward to the root system. When applied to the roots, Vydate® will rapidly move throughout the plant canopy and roots."

"Insect and mite control is often achieved by foliar sprays. However, since Vydate® is highly systemic in plants, application to the soil allows absorption by the roots and movement up to growing points and leaves. When Vydate® is applied to soil in the root zone, transpiration carries oxamyl to foliar areas of the plant."

According to another publication, days to harvest for tomato is 3 days. There are also a number of cautions listed there. It doesn't look very safe to me.

http://fs1.agrian.com/pdfs/DuPont_Vy...de_Label4d.pdf

"GROUND WATER ADVISORY--Residues of DuPont™ VYDATE® L can seep or leach through soil and can contaminate ground water which may be used for drinking. Users are advised not to apply VYDATE® L where the water table is close to the surface and where soils are very permeable, i.e., well-drained soils such as loamy sands."

"This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment or residues on blooming crops or weeds. Do not apply this product or allow to drift to blooming crops or weeds if bees are visiting the treatment area."

"RESTRICTED USE PESTICIDE Due to Acute Toxicity And Toxicity to Birds and Mammals."

"Cover or disc spill areas. Birds and mammals in treated areas may be killed. Do not apply directly to water, or to areas where surface water is present, or to intertidal areas below the mean high water mark. Drift and runoff may be hazardous to aquatic organisms in neighboring areas. Do not contaminate water when cleaning equipment or disposing of equipment waste waters."

[JackE]

YIKES!!

Our water table is close to the surface, and our soil is "very permeable, well-drained loamy sand". Also, I generally don't like systemics.

I figured it was too toxic to be safe - but that's what we eat from the store all the time!!
If it were a life or death financial issue, I'd use it since it IS legal. But that's not the case. Thanks so much for the info - didn't take much to convince me, did it? I knew we were flirting with some nasty stuff.

I just sent sent the following to our tech advisor - "Matt, cancel my inquiry about Vydate - it pollutes groundwater and the field is close to my house well. Sorry to bother you with it. Jack"

[JackE]

There are some exciting biological RKN products under development in the plant science industry. The pressure is really on now with most of the old standbys - like Methyl Bromide - being taken off the shelf by law. Vegetable growers in parts of Florida, where RKN is REALLY bad, are in a state of near-panic without Methyl Bromide.

Bayer Plant Science is already producing limited quantities of field corn, cotton and soybean seed with virtually 100% nem resistance. As I understand it, it involves a soil bacteria that causes the plant to build a "defensive wall" around it's roots. This may be something that can be safely marketted to small growers. Like most of these new products, it's not available to us yet. It would be wonderful if the technology could someday include common vegetables.

I don't know if the bacteria gene is spliced into the corn or not - but I do believe that if we are going to get rid of the toxic chemicals we should be more open-minded about GMO developments in plant science. We can't have everything exactly natural and still feed 6 bilion people. We have to be willing to make SOME compromises.

Certa USA has a new product called MeloCon that is a live African fungus that devours nematodes. It is organic-approved, very expensive, and shipped from Calif alive and packed in dry ice. You pick it up at the airport - which can be a nightmare at Houston Intercontinental! We almost bought some two years ago - made all the arrangements and everything - but we just couldn't work-out the timing of delivery and application. It dies shortly after thawing if not applied to the soil, and has temperature parameters as well, and we didn't want to waste a lot of money! As the fungus feeds on the nems, it leaves the soil a distinct purple color! I hope it dosn't develop a taste for human flesh - I can't wait for the movie - "The Fungus from Hell."

Share your views on these matters. There are parts of the world, warm areas with sandy soil, where nematode control is a matter of life or death for millions of people.

Jack

[Worth1]

Jack you think with your heart and not your wallet when it comes to GMO foods.
The only GMO products you are going to see come to light are ones that make big business more money.
Not ones that are going to help people grow food without someone else getting rich from it.

If they were to come up with a tomato that was immune to nematodes I can guarantee you that you wouldn't be able to save seeds from it.
When it comes to places like developing countries in Africa there always seems to be a compromise when it comes to helping them.

They are forced or encouraged to take up western ways.
Then once that is done the lucky or mean ones end up ruling everybody else and controlling the food.
These so called leaders then end up running what they call a kleptocracy where the countries resources go to serve them and no one else.

I have always found it ironic to see a 12 year old boy in rags that lives in a shack or hut carrying an AK 47.
This same child once came from an agrarian society.

I could see it now, this child with his gun guarding a stack of GMO modified tomato seeds from the people that could use them.

Worth

[JackE]

I think you may be a wee bit too cynical, Worth. I do, however, understand the situation in Africa. We have missionaries there. I won't say any more or drop names on the open web because I could risk their lives, but use your imagination. "Kleptocracy is too kind".
The African countries were forced to adopt "western ways" during the imperial era of the 19th century. Where they made their mistake was in rejecting European culture when they gained independence in the 20th, and nostalgically opting to return to a pre-christian, primitive culture. They are paying the price for that mistake. South Africa, thanks largely to Nelson Mandela and Episcopal Bishop Tutu (I think that was his name), wisely chose to let bygones be bygones and continue building their economy along western lines - and they seem to be doing quite well, thank you.

The saddest of all is Zimbabwe, the former Rhodesia - once a thriving agrarian nation with per acre yields of basic commodities that rivalled America. Now it's an absolute and total disaster area!

But that's another issue...

Anytime private capital is used to develop new technologies, those investors are going to want a return on the money they put at risk. That's why we have had patent laws since the inception of our republic. We have bought GMO corn from Sygenta and I certainly had no problem promising not to save seed - seemed like a reasonble request to me, given the millions upon millions spent on R&D. The same with prescription medications. The firms deserve a period of exclusive rights to their invention.

It's sad for all of us to watch our beloved natural world fade into history - but we can't hope to feed what will be 10 billion people by 2050 unless we take advantage of every technological advance we can come-up with. And it doesn't help to demonize those researchers, corporations and investors who are working to find answers to problems like nematodes. In the final analysis, it's only the profit motive that really gets things done.

Jack

It's just a wild guess, but something tells me you might be somewhat familiar with George Bush Intercontinental Airport.

[Worth1]

It's just a wild guess, but something tells me you might be somewhat familiar with George Bush Intercontinental Airport.

Not really, I have been through there a hand full of times.
I fly Alaska Airlines from Austin to Seattle then to Anchorage.
They are by far the best airline to fly on and I have been on a few.
They still treat you like a customer.
If for some reason my plane is late they have a boarding pass waiting for me.
That has only happened once.
Many of the flight attendants have known me for years.

Worst Airline US Air.

No I'm not demonizing big business any more they they deserve.
I just dont like people, organizations or companies hiding behind good deeds for other reasons.

In Rwanda they had suns killing their own fathers and mothers for a spot of land the size of my house.

[JackE]

In Rwanda they had sons killing their own fathers and mothers for a spot of land the size of my house.

In Zimbabe several years ago, "President" Robert Mugabe sent a group of thugs to the home of a political rival with orders to kill him. The man wasn't home, but his innocent wife was - so they whacked-off her hands and feet with a machete and left her on the front lawn to bleed to death in agony.

They wanted to return to traditional African culture and they sure got it!!!

Jack

[Worth1]

I had an istresting conversation with a young man from Zimbabe about 3 years ago.

He said that the way the women acted where we worked at that they would be taken out and beaten to death where he came from.

I could see the contempt in his eyes every time one of the gals at work spoke up or acted silly.

He has moved on to who knows where.

So what is your consensus on nematode control.


Worth