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Old July 6, 2017   #466
BigVanVader
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Did you trim roots? That seems to be the main thing that increase success. Mine took around a week to be ready for fresh air. Next season I'm gonna try doing some grafts with the rootstock still in their plug trays.
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Old July 6, 2017   #467
AlittleSalt
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That stinks. I can't write what I actually said as I read what you wrote Cole. &^%#
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Old July 6, 2017   #468
Cole_Robbie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigVanVader View Post
Did you trim roots?
No, how do you do that?

Oh, and I fertilized the root stock cells with a little Osmocote. Maybe that was a bad idea, too.

I'm not upset. I have one Mat-Su and one Sky Reacher that look like they will live. I'm not a scientist, but from what I read it is about learning from controlled failures.
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Old July 6, 2017   #469
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Yeah I lost about 60% of mine overall. Trimming the roots is easy, just snip with scissors. I started all mine in DE so it was easy. Trimming the roots keeps the plant from pushing to much liquid through the stem, which can hinder healing & also triggers the plant to focus on root growth while the cut heals, which is what you want. I pre soaked all my DE with Miracle-grow and never fed or watered again. I found spraying more than very occasionally will cause stem rot.
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Old July 6, 2017   #470
b54red
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That stem rot is nothing more than damping off which is a real problem this time of the year for me. Even my suckers which almost always take right away were dying of damping off. I lost over half of them which is really unusual. Damping off just seems to be in the air down here and with near 100% humidity and near 100 degree temps the problems it causes just multiply. Keeping plants in the humidity chamber longer is impossible right now or all will be lost to damping off. Opening it too soon in this heat will cause fatal wilting so you see the dilemma. I could take them into the house and get much better results but I don't need but a dozen or so plants so I'm not too worried.
I will have enough for my fall planting but I may not have all the varieties I would like.

Bill
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Old July 6, 2017   #471
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Root trimming the rootstock the second time was, I believe, the secret to success for me.

Another I picked up somewhere (probably from Bill) is to water the scions well soon before grafting, but let the root stock dry out a bit. I went one step further and put the cut scion immediately into a cup of water while finding the appropriate grafting clip, getting my pot of coarse DE in position to accept the graft, etc.

And while the pots with the coarse DE were "precharged" with water, it was allowed to drain through into a bowl and this was the last watering the the pots got until after the plants were moved out of the humidity dome and under the lights.

As for misting, I definitely over did it on the first batch that died. For the second batch I only spritzed the inside of the dome, never the plants themselves.

Cole, spend the winter experimenting--you'll be better prepared for the coming season!
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Old July 6, 2017   #472
Cole_Robbie
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These are all great tips. Thank you very much.
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Old July 9, 2017   #473
Flattop
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Hey, great thread here. I've been lurking on this forum for several years and haven't posted. I live in Alaska graft several thousand open pollinated/heirloom tomatoes every year using splice grafting for sales in garden centers and farmer's markets. Most of my seeds come from J&L Gardens and Tatiana, who I am very grateful to for many things. I typically use Estamino as it is more generative and an advantage in our short season and cool soils. But, I have used Supernatural in the past for double grafting (which I no longer do).

I have grafted 60+ varieties this year and have been doing high numbers like this for 5 years. I've got some insights on compatibility between different varieties J&L sells and Estamino, though all respond positively.

If you are interested in learning more about the process, I teach classes on grafting every year and have put up my presentations on a wordpress site. In addition, I have been funded to write protocols for grafting watermelon in high tunnels here and am currently doing a two year project on that. You can also find my presentation on how to graft watermelons on the wordpress site. Here is the link: https://flattopfarmak.wordpress.com/

I am trying to curb my internet use this year and won't be able to respond to most questions immediately. However, I will check back and thank you all for the time you've put in documenting so much awesome information. -Rob
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Old July 9, 2017   #474
jtjmartin
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Flattop:

I read over your presentation on how to graft watermelons - fascinating. I'm very interested in your technique for grafting tomatoes.

This was my first full year grafting and it went better than expected. Since I have limited garden space, I knew that the various types of wilts would become a larger issue - they have this year on my non-grafted plants.


Cole:

I've learned to graft from two people here at T-ville. One grafted quite a bit with a "no root" method and Bill grafts with what I could call a "stub root" method. Both seem to have learned - as BVV said - that too many roots push too much fluid into the scion so that the graft has a harder time healing.

This year, I trimmed my rootstock roots down to stubs and got very good results.

We just got a new golden retriever puppy. Of course, he "helps" me in the garden. One of his favorite tasks is helping when I hand water. He tries to drink directly out of the hose and ends up getting "soaked or choked." That may be like grafting with full roots - just too much water!

NOTICE: I'm just a student - not the teacher - so listen to experienced grafters more!
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Old July 9, 2017   #475
Flattop
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Hi thanks for the response. Rootstocks for tomatoes are in 98 cell plug trays and they have roots. Plants are lightly watered 8 hours before at a level of 2/5 where 1/5 would be very light & 5/5 would be leaching. If you are having this problem with grafts being pushed off, then you should consider using a smaller pot size and drying them down more before grafting.

Plants are grafted at 1.5-2 mm stem diameter I never have problems with scions being pushed off using these techniques, but watermelons are a different story and cuttings are more useful there. I get 95% germination and 80-95% graft take, averaging about 70% marketability from seed. Plants are typically sold in 3.5" or #1 containers.
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Old July 9, 2017   #476
Cole_Robbie
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Thanks for the link, Rob. You are doing impressive work.

Can you tell me where I can get one of these?


(edit) wait, I found the link: http://www.johnnyseeds.com/tools-sup...=en_US&start=1
Attached Images
File Type: jpg graftingtool.jpg (43.5 KB, 58 views)

Last edited by Cole_Robbie; July 9, 2017 at 01:29 PM.
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Old July 9, 2017   #477
Yak54
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Cole----Following this thread and can offer possible cause for your failure. Removing the cover on the healing chamber lowers humidity a bunch and can cause failure such as yours. Here is a link from Purdue that has helped me in my grafting experiments. I paid special attention to light & humidity suggestions. https://extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/HO/HO-260-W.pdf. This year I got 9 grafts that survived out of 14 attempted. Maybe this link can help you. It did me.
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Old July 9, 2017   #478
Cole_Robbie
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Thanks for the link. I am good at making high humidity, but it is the gradual reduction that I need to learn.

Maybe I will get one of these, to pair with a humidifier:
https://www.amazon.com/WILLHI-Humidi.../dp/B005DK2T2Y

Last edited by Cole_Robbie; July 9, 2017 at 02:42 PM.
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Old July 9, 2017   #479
Yak54
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Yes, that item could be just the ticket ! And you are correct about needing to learn the subtleties of this process. The details are important. My first attempt gave me only a 50% success rate. This year it was 65% success rate. I'm sure I can improve further as I learn some more of the fine points, as I'm sure you will also. Keep us posted with your progress. Our experience helps others. I learn a lot from my own mistakes and failures and I keep getting better. I'm sure you will too.

Dan
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Old July 9, 2017   #480
Hellmanns
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The humidifier is a must have for me. I can look at my grafts without fear of losing the humidity.

I grafted over several weeks back in the spring, and noticed warmer temps actually helped me.
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