How do the growers do it? my scraggly vines

[lexusnexus]

I've found out that it also depends on the variety. My grape tomato seedlings are tall and leggy (they were under the same grow lights as all the other varieties). The Opalka are rather limpy. I'm not sure if they don't like having their roots in such tight confines as the other varieties. The Crnkovic Gold are somewhat leggy but not as long as the grape. The Daniel Burson, Cherokee Purple and Neves Azorean Red all seem perfectly normal.

Dan

[Bipetual]

This is a great thread. Glad you asked, Tcarnahan. I've often wondered the same thing. I don't feel so bad for waiting until 8 weeks to the day for starting my seedlings, and they do look better because I followed advice here and turned my heat mat off as soon as my seeds sprouted. At least when you plant your seedlings you can plant them my deeply and you will have a bigger root system. My cousin had a Super sweet 100 plant that he planted really late that was just a long skinny vine. He dug a long trench and planted most of it. He said it was unbelievably productive, and he grows them every year. So maybe next year we can buy better light fixtures. This year we can settle for having more roots!

[bughunter99]

When they are growing inside, transplant them twice into bigger containers and each time you do, plant them deep, all the way up to the bottom leaves. That helps a lot. Then when you plant them outside, also plant them deep. That will shorten their height and make them less vulnerable to breakage. Growing them in cooler temperatures helps, as does getting them outside for field trips into a cold frame as early as it is possible.

[lrussillo]

I am in Northern VA. I start seeds in late March. Once outside temps are above 50 during the day, plants go out into a mini collapsible greenhouse and stay there if night temps are above 45. I don't use lights--also--I fill 16 oz paper soup cups with a cup of seedling mix, which fills them about 1/3, then I keep adding soil as the seedlings grow.

[Fusion_power]

1. Start seed at the right time, about 8 weeks before you want to set them outside.

2. Get a better light source. Fluorescent lights are barely acceptable up to 4 week old seedlings, but are not acceptable beyond that. Full direct sunshine is the best light source. Second best is a HID system with daylight spectrum output.

3. Brush across the seedlings 2 or 3 times a day. Thigmatropy is your friend. It helps tomato seedlings grow stocky and strong.

4. Peat pellets are generally not the best method of handling seedlings. Cell trays or cups with high quality seed start mix give more consistent results.

[crmauch]

Well, I didn't know about the growth inhibitors (but it doesn't surprise me.) My plants are fairly healthy, but yes, they are more spindly than the commercial ones (but the variety you can get raising from seed (even if you don't trade here on Tomatoville), is vastly greater!.

I do see two potential flaws in what you're doing: you're starting too early (by my estimation you're starting 10 to 11 weeks before plant out instead of 6 to 8). And you're not keeping on your light long enough. I run my lights 24x7*, but this is supposedly bad. But from Craig LeHoullier's (NCTomatoman) new book, 14 hours is optimum (supposedly 14 to 20 there is no gain and over 20 is detrimental).

Now we get into opinion. Right now I have a shelving unit with 3 fluorescent fixtures that I can adjust their height. As I transplant to larger pots**, I start running out of room under the lights. So I shortly put the transplanted plants outside. I happen to have a north facing porch/deck which is almost ideal for hardening off plants. And if its not going to drop below 40/frost I leave them outside, and then carry them inside if the weather does turn inimical at night.

I'll try to take a picture of my plants tonight, and post them.

*Why do I run my lights 24x7?: When I've tried having lights out for a time, I felt my plants got spindlier, but also if I tried manually turn off/on the light I would occasionally forget, and w/ timers I had two problems, I've had timers stop working and sometimes the lights would not turn on properly even if the timer was working correctly.

**I find peat pots get expensive (I give a lot of plants away), and if you want to see a religious war, start talking about the pros/cons of peat pots.
So, I make my pots using newspaper. I use a Pot Maker from Richter's:
https://www.richters.com/show.cgi?pa...maker_main.htm
But I make my pots much taller that the pot maker would normally make. There appears to be other manufacturers who make taller pot makers:
http://www.gardenista.com/posts/a-21...rint-seed-pots

Originally Posted by tcarnahan

Hi,

I live in Northern Virginia in zone 7a. This is my second year to grow cherry tomatoes from seed. I always get “unrulely” vines (long and unable to stand up on their own) by the time of planting outside.

I have always wondered how the commercial growers are able to bring tomato plants to Home Depot in the condition they are in. They are always stocky and short in their small packs) and healthy). I start growing cherry tomatoes in the 3rd week of February. By the time the first of May comes around, my plants are 1 to 2 feet long and laying all over. They don’t stand up like the commercial ones. I don’t feed they anything … I just water them. I start them in peat pellets with growing medium (peat moss and perilight) and after the first true leaves show, I transplant them into 3 inch pots. I have them in a room that is 68 to 72 degrees. I have a fluorescent grow light that I have on a timer. I have the timer set to keep the lights on 8 hours a day.

I just don’t understand what I am doing wrong. The scraggly long vines I transplant outside are difficult to handle and break easily.

Question: what should I be doing in order to get stocky, short tomato vines?

Thanks,

Tom

[garden381]

Plant all tomatos on their side and they will get real strong. Leggy plants can be saved.

[garden381]

note that before electricity there was nobody standing near seedlings with candles so we really dont need them.

LED lights come in colors. reds and blues are individually cheaper than 'grow' lights. i do buy mine at..

http://www.aliexpress.com/premium/ch...02&groupsort=1

.please note that ANY ordercan be expected to take AT LEAST 40 days to recive, in my experiance. this is a safe site and many products are manufactured for American companies or ARE american companies. these products do not usually have the company name on them yet, ie. phillps, ge, ...

[ermentrude]

I used two $12 under cabinet lights to grow my 24 seedlings this year. Would they have been better with LED? Who knows. But they all got planted out (some with me, some were given away) and are now thriving. You don't have to spend a fortune to grow a few seedlings.

[crmauch]

How many of the bulb's (I assume your using the 38 LED lights?) do you use per 'flat' (Do you use flats?). What do you use for your fixture?

Originally Posted by garden381

note that before electricity there was nobody standing near seedlings with candles so we really dont need them.

LED lights come in colors. reds and blues are individually cheaper than 'grow' lights. i do buy mine at..

http://www.aliexpress.com/premium/ch...02&groupsort=1

.please note that ANY ordercan be expected to take AT LEAST 40 days to recive, in my experiance. this is a safe site and many products are manufactured for American companies or ARE american companies. these products do not usually have the company name on them yet, ie. phillps, ge, ...

[clkeiper]

Originally Posted by garden381

note that before electricity there was nobody standing near seedlings with candles so we really dont need them.

...

In the northern part of the country, trust me, We NEED the lights. We get less than 8 hours a day of low quality light most of Dec and Jan and Feb. Lights are a must for any growth in those months. In the early days before electricity we also didn't grow plants like we do now, either. I need to have my plants ready to sell by May 15th. I have to start peppers in Feb it is cold and the short days of light that don't lend to growing peppers. They struggle and I am very thankful for light of any kind to help them along.

[crmauch]

Originally Posted by crmauch

I'll try to take a picture of my plants tonight, and post them.

Well it took far longer than a week, and I lost a shot of a single plant, but here are my tomatoes as of last week (and so far I only have 7 planted out ):