Germination Testing

[amideutch]

When I put the seed in the envelopes after taping and covering with thin foam strips I always position them so they are towards the bottom of the envelope and away from the upper right corner where the stamps are put.
Ted, like the photo's and they do show the damage. Looking forward to getting my digital microscope and being able to check them myself. It will be a valuable tool in the future. Ami

[carolyn137]

It's taken me a while to get back here, but here I am.

Dice, I do wish you had told me about your problem seeds last year but nevertheless if it's crushed seeds I know they weren't crushed as seen here at home b'c I don't need a microscope to see same, trust me, b/c they look crumbly, is best I can say. And of course if you'd like replacements please just PM me with your address and the variety names.

Linda, all the varieties you requested were 2008 seeds except for Ashleigh which was 2004.

And I sent many of those 2008 ones out, b'c of the 80 or so folks who participated in my recent seed offer almost all requested mostly 2008 seeds. There were two different batches of Giannini and one had slightly darker seeds but that shouldn't have made that much difference based on my past experiences with seeds.

I also sent those 2008 seeds, not as part of the seed offer, to a few folks who live in the south and had to start them in January and knowing them, LOL, I would have heard if there were problems.

Linda, if you'd like me to resend you those seeds please just PM me with your address and list the varieties. Too late for this year, but should still be OK for next year since I don't know right now if there will be a seed offer next year, even though I have a lot of new ones on my current list.

And thanks for noting that the seeds you've received from me before have had about 100% germination, for that's been the case for all the seed offers I've done before.

So......what's to do.

I'm going to continue and pack the way I have been and those of you who did get seeds from me either this year or in an earlier year know that I tape the seeds to something else inside the envelope so they don't get relocated and pile up inside the envelope such that they wouldn't be crushed, b'c I do know about crushed seeds, trust me.

Yes, Linda, I can post a germination thread but I've thought about the last time I did that. This seed offer most of the folks who requested seeds were folks I didn't know and I know from prior experience that the germination range for any one variety with fresh seeds can range from zero to 100%.

So how do I interpret that? Can I say that the seeds were crushed? No, I can't. Can I say that different folks use different methods to sow seeds and germinate them? I sure can.

Linda I know in terms of knowing what's shes doing, same with Tania and Dice and Ted and now I can't remember who else posted in this thread.

Since there's a number of ways one can interpert germination results I'm not sure how much I or others would take back from such results and I think this thread has been great in terms of indicating that there may be a new problem out there in terms of USPS sorting machines.

I know from previous seed offers when I've said, for older seed varieties, to sow so many seeds, or double sow, that it isn't done b'c many folks have no intention whatsoever of saving their own seeds and are trying to sow the least number of seeds to stretch them out.

So this time I said nada on the 2008 and 2007 seeds b'c they're fresh but for every one of the packs that had older seeds I hand wrote suggestions on how many to sow, as in sow no LESS than 4-6 seeds, or double sow, or whatever, and that was for close to maybe 300 plus seed packs.

Do I switch to using bubble wrap or something else or using small padded mailers for so few seed packs when I make seed offers?

it's bad enough trying to get seeds out ASAP and I don't think I want to switch my seed packing methods/bc right now I've heard back from just a few of you, and no others.

So how much of a problem are crushed seeds when they haven't been in the past as far as my seed offers and SSE listings are concerned?

If it turns out to be a significant problem, which I don't know right now, then I'll continue making SSE listings but just stop making seed offers. Seems to me that would be a reasonable way to go.

And of course I can't speak to anyone else who sends out a lot of seeds, either from SSE listings or seed offers or just to special friends, etc.

[ContainerTed]

Carolyn, I have also started some of the 2004 "Dr. Carolyn Pink" you sent me. They were in the same envelope and were packaged the same as the others. I planted 8 seeds as you said and have two healthy happy seedlings almost ready for first pot transfer. My first impression of this crunching issue is that the damage seems to be random - some seeds in a pack - some packs in an envelope with no damage - etc.

When I get seeds from someone, I want one or two good plants and then I'll have all of the seeds from that variety that I'll need for a while.

But, like Ami, I will also begin using only bubble envelopes. I will not ask anyone else to do the same, because, like I said above, I only need a couple of plants.

Did I find crushed seeds? Absolutely yes. So far, I've found crushed seeds from 11 sources and they all have two things in common (so far). They arrived here in a standard envelope and were handled at some point by the US Postal System.

Am I happy or unhappy? Unequivocably and delightedly happy. I have new varieties to try, and I've learned something new about this wonderful hobby. Now, that can only be a happy thing. And there are so many varieties to grow, that if it doesn't work out this year, then we'll try again next year.

Take care

Ted

[amideutch]

I started this thread because Ted had e-mailed me concerning poor germination of seeds I had sent him. I then took it upon myself to check the viability of my seed which I did and my results did not match Teds. After my findings I started this thread one,to let people know that germination testing may be needed to be done more often on the seeds we trade or give away. And two, let Ted Know what I had done and maybe we have another problem going on out there. This is where Ted did some excellent detective work and the rest is history. Now we are finding out this is NOT an isolated incident and we may have to change the way we do business as far as packaging our seeds for shipment.
And Carolyn, you lost me about half way through your last post. And nobody was saying you were sending seeds that were already crushed and if you can tell by just eyeballing them that they are crushed or cracked I want the name of your Optometrist. And as I said before people who have had problems in the past were blowing off the germination problem until now, when we made it public there was a problem. And THAT was the intent of this thread. Not to point fingers and NONE have been pointed. Ami

[Linda10]

Carolyn, thank you for your offer to send more seeds, but out of the 5 varieties, I do have one plant each (except for Giannini) which is enough to evaluate and save seed. No need to send any more.

I consider your seed offers as GIFTS and even if few germinated, I want you to know that your time, effort, and generousness is greatly appreciated.

[Polar_Lace]

Ted,

I haven't seen any germination yet, but that could be because of my very poor eyesight. I almost blinded myself a couple of years ago when I got some garden lime in my eyes while sprinkling it around in the garden one day. Something to think about on a windy day!
It had caused a bad infection in both eyes. My vision was very low for 2 months that year. - I'll have my eagle-eyed daughter look at them when she comes back from her trip on Sunday afternoon.

Sometimes she helps me by making "match book" seeds to help me choose a certain amount of lettuce seed, and all those smaller seeds. She can see the things I can no longer see with my script glasses. I admit, I asked for her help to plant the TPS without the use of any "match book" help, as I didn't know if the TPS would work that way.

They were planted in a plastic force-flex bag with all the goodies I thought they needed. I even have some fall leaves in there from my "Spring Clean Up" and this past Fall, although the soil on top and underneath them is the sterile "Sphagnum Moss" bought locally.

~* Robin

[ContainerTed]

And I'd like to echo what Ami and Linda said. Carolyn, your gifts are wonderful acts of your love of your fellow humans and our wonderful obsession with tomatoes.

This thread just says that we all are faced with a new piece of information. The choice to act or not act on that information is uniquely personal to each of us. Stay cool, because there's probably a couple hundred varieties in your seed stash that would interest me any day. Your tomato seeds are welcome in my bucket garden anytime - and shipped any way you want and I'll send the postage and packaging.

Robin, I just wanted to follow up given the new developing information. You ladies that received the TPS received all that I had. I kept none of either variety. So, the "ball is in your court". LOL

Ted

[Barbee]

This thread has definitely been interesting. I had problems with one person I sent seeds to that I know about. I sent her seeds in a plastic baggie and left just a smidge of air in there. Not a lot of air, but just normal air without smooshing the air out. When she received the envelope, it was crinkled and taped back up by the PO, the plastic baggie was in the envelope and my letter, but the seeds had gotten lost. Evidently just that bit of air was enough to blow the corner of the baggie and the seeds fell out. So when I resent the seeds, I took a standard size envelope, put the seeds in the middle of it, then folded each end up to make a packet that had padding on both sides. Taped it up, then stuck that in a regular envelope. They arrived safely, and hopefully they will germinate for her. My sister in law works for the USPS. I think I'll pick her brain and see if she can offer some insight as to the best way for me to send seeds.

[carolyn137]

And nobody was saying you were sending seeds that were already crushed and if you can tell by just eyeballing them that they are crushed or cracked I want the name of your Optometrist.

Ami, I didn't see anyone say I was sending out seeds that were already crushed which is the reason I said in my above post that the seeds as I pack them aren't crushed.

My optometrist's name is Dr. Price. And I won't give you my opthamologist's name right now b'c I'm hoping that Dr. Price will say it's OK to go ahead with surgery this summer for the cataract in my right eye.

However, I do right well left eyed, thank you.

[BattleOfBennington]

I have to wonder (and I am thinking out loud here). A few years ago we had that whole scare of people sending Chem/Bio powder through the mail. I know in some areas they are doing things to "neutralize" any potential things that may be going through the mail.

Is it possible that those things (irradiation, and who knows what else they use) can also be damaging the sseeds?

[Bitwise Gamgee]

Originally Posted by amideutch

... BTW, I just ordered my Carson MM-740 digital microscope from amazon.com. Nothing elaborate but good enough to satisfy my needs and not break my pocket book.
Ami
http://www.carsonoptical.com/Pocket_...oscopes/MM-740

Ami, that digital scope you bought looks like it would be a lot of fun! Be sure to let us know what you think of it when you get it. - Thanks!


- Bitwise

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by BattleOfBennington

I have to wonder (and I am thinking out loud here). A few years ago we had that whole scare of people sending Chem/Bio powder through the mail. I know in some areas they are doing things to "neutralize" any potential things that may be going through the mail.

Is it possible that those things (irradiation, and who knows what else they use) can also be damaging the sseeds?

No, b'c the only postal zip codes to be involved are those in the Washington DC area that service the White House and the Senate Building and other goverment buildings.

[BattleOfBennington]

Not true, because those are also done in the Philly, NYC, Chicago and other locations.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

No, b'c the only postal zip codes to be involved are those in the Washington DC area that service the White House and the Senate Building and other goverment buildings.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by BattleOfBennington

Not true, because those are also done in the Philly, NYC, Chicago and other locations.

OK,not true from your information.

My info comes from SSE b/c of the concern after the anthrax issue/scare and the irradiation of seeds and their concern about irradiation of seeds re all SSE members sending seeds from and to US locations as well as to other countries and incoming seeds from other countries. They contacted the USPS about it at that time.

I didn't take the time to do some Googling and see what the USPS might say about it, if anything.

And yes, irradiation at the right level can damage seeds b'c it causes chain breaks in both DNA strands which can be lethal.

[dice]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Dice, I do wish you had told me about your problem seeds last year but nevertheless if it's crushed seeds I know they weren't crushed as seen here at home b'c I don't need a microscope to see same, trust me, b/c they look crumbly, is best I can say. And of course if you'd like replacements please just PM me with your address and the variety names.

(Heh, heh, now is my chance to change my mind about what
variety I wanted.)

I was not complaining, just remarking on observed phenomena.
Last year I had only sprouted two of your varieties out of five,
and I assumed that any seeds that failed to sprout did so simply
because the seeds were too old or were never viable in the first
place. I resprouted one of those cultivars and the other three
this year, and I happened to take a closer look. Because they
were 2004 or older (two varieties had no year), I soaked them
for 24 hours first, then sprouted them on wet paper towels in
plastic baggies. This made it easier to see damage on
cracked seeds as they swelled up from the moisture, damage
that would be invisible sprouting them in seed starting mix.

Some of each variety were unharmed and did actually sprout,
anyway, so it is not as if I have been deprived of any of these
cultivars by the damaged seeds that I observed.