If you could start over on your beds

[Dewayne mater]

If you had the chance to start over on your tomato beds, with someone else providing the labor and spliting the cost of soil amendments, etc. how would you do it?

My plan at this point is to go back to a 1 foot depth and 6 inches raised bed as that is what space allows in my small suburban backyard garden. The existing soil is virtually all clay and my thought is to replace it entirely, but with what type of mixture of soils, composts, etc? Thanks for your input.

[kath]

I'm happy with the mix Mel Bartholomew suggested in his books: 1/3 peat, 1/3 compost, 1/3 coarse vermiculite. I do add lime and wood ash each year, more compost as each crop comes out of the bed, some greensand, rock phosphate, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, etc. depending on what's going into the bed during the next rotation. Mine are surrounded by cinder blocks and the soil a little below the depth of the cinder block was also improved.

[TomatoDon]

I did that last year. I use 10 inch 2 x 12's, which results in 9+ inches. In my mind, 6" material (which is actually something over 5") is not high enough. If I'm going to all the trouble to attach them and set them up I like them taller. I think my first ones were 8 inches, which was not enough in my opinion.

I also use treated lumber. Lots of posts here debating that, but the university studies I read from the U of Oklahoma or OK State said there was no sign sign of it effecting the plant, its health, or yours. Some people just don't like the idea of treated wood and then have to use expensive cedar or redwood or replace it every couple or years or so. If the thought of treated lumber bugs you, just add a plastic liner stapled to the wood. I've never heard of anyone getting ill from eating tomatoes from a raised bed that used treated wood. If it was a significant danger you can bet the government, which wants to control everything and think for you too, would have banned it years ago.

My first beds were 4' x 12' and spaced 4 feet apart for the walkways. That looks big in April, but in late July you wish you had more room. When I re-did mine last year I increased it to 5' x 12' and 5' spaces for walkways. You can get a four wheeler and wagon through there fairly easy.

The next thign I did was to order the heaviest commercial grade weed barrier I could find from a nursery supply house. Then I doubled it. I tucked it under the 5 x 12 frames before I added the soil mix. I ordered a 6' width so I can also lay it over the bed wiht 6 inches lapping over both sides, cut an X where I want to plant a seedling, and tuck the fabric around the stem for maximum weed protection, Then added hay for insultation against the hot summer sun and to make it look better.

You have a good idea to dig down. The more the better. Mother Earth is the best regulator or temps and moisture.

I had five dump truck loads of organic matter delivered a month or so ago. The "soil" was free for hauling it away, the only cost was per load from the dump truck owner. I had a mountain of soil mix left over when I pulled up all the beds; so much I had to get a bulldozer to pile it up. We went through that pretty fast and need the extra five yards this year. The important thing is to buy in bulk, by the pick-up truck or trailer load. Most any of the nurseries around town will offer it or tell you where you can get it. Some municipalities offer it too. Memphis is my closest city, and takes all the tree limbs, sticks, bagged grass cuttings, and bag leaves that people leave on the curb for pick up and hauls them to a big yard where they grind it all up and then they sell it by the load. Just buy in bulk -- it will drive you nuts trying to fill up very many beds at all with bagged material.

Hope this helps.

DS

[b54red]

Oh what a nice fantasy. I like that part about someone else doing the work. Oh well here goes.
1. I would make my beds 42" wide with paths about 3' to make moving my wheelbarrow through them easier. My current beds are between 4 and 5 feet wide and now that I am older and arthritic I daily wish for slightly narrower beds.
2. Since cost and labor are no object I would have the sides make with brick and have a treated 2x4 mounted on top of the brick for nailing, stapling and etc.
3. The beds would be filled with compost, mushroom compost, rotted horse manure, ground peanut hulls, perlite, water crystals, trace element supplements, cottonseed meal, alfalfa meal, a generous supply of earthworms, and for good measure a little chicken manure.
4. An individual faucet at each bed for attaching drip irrigation.
5. A large supply of hay for mulching.
6. While we are dreaming lets throw in someone to do the tilling, weeding and spraying.

[TZ-OH6]

I've been redoing my beds the last few years. I dug them out completely to 2-3 ft, which gets me below the clay layer to the moist, nicely textured soil beneath. I then back fill while adding a lot of organic matter ranging from sticks and leaves at the very bottom to composted wood chips higher up, sprinkling on high urea lawn fertilizer as I go. At the end of the first season this gets densely planted with winter rye so that the roots can infiltrate and break up remaining clods of clay. All of the rocks from this activity are now a paved walkway around the garden. I'll never have to water the garden again. If I had the money I would have brought in a back hoe to do the work in the main garden.

[Dewayne mater]

Great stuff! B54red way to dream big! It won't be unlimited costs for me, just split between me and the builder who messed up the foundation and to repair it, had to dig up my old beds I'd prepared over a 3 seasons. So, individual faucets are right out! ;-) Your soil mix sounds like it would grow 10 foot maters, but I'm not sure I can source several of the items you've mentioned. DS's idea of bulk organic material is probably a more realistic option. I'm not sure I can get them to construct the raised bed frame, but the good news is someone else really is doing all the digging!
TZ - great work! You've been busy. Does the winter rye get dug under before planting time? Does it want to come back every year?
Kath - thanks. Is wood ash fireplace ashes?

[huntoften]

I'm in the process of re-doing some of the beds I started 6 years ago. 5 foot wide beds have become 4 foot wide...paths have become wider. Lumber is treated wood. Depth...I'd like them to be 12-18 inches, but 10 will suffice. I'd also be more liberal with the chainsaw with regards to surrounding trees....three of them were whacked down this year....maybe more next year. More sun = more healthy plants.

[SteveS]

We are planning our garden at our new house. I have always used raised beds. Some of my beds will be 4 ft wide, some 4.5 ft wide & then I have 2-12 ft blocks for squash & pumpkins. I am using 8 in cedar & Gardener's Supply connectors. I use a sealer from Bioshield on the wood. I have already planted some fruit trees.

Last nite I started tilling. I have a 6 hp tiller, weighs about 75 lbs. In our hard packed clay backyard, it only got 2 inches deep!

So we have called someone with a more heavy-duty rig to till. I had gotten 7 cu yds for the garden...topsoil with sand & compost mixed in & I had used this to plant the fruit trees. I am getting another 10 cu yds delivered Monday. The tiller guy says he could take it down to our garden from the driveway.

I keep telling myself it will be worth it in the end!

Steve

[Mojo]

Oh, it's someone else's back??? In that case, I'm going to build raised beds approximately 16" deep: landscaping timbers topped by 2x12s, bolted together and lined with plastic. I'll run them in a series of long beds 5' wide with a trellised support system approximately 6' tall at the apex (built in 5' sections to be more manageable). I will use whatever soil mix is the consensus among my local cognoscetti. I will have soaker hoses laid out in each bed and a nice layer of lawn clippings for mulch.

[korney19]

Originally Posted by kath

I'm happy with the mix Mel Bartholomew suggested in his books: 1/3 peat, 1/3 compost, 1/3 coarse vermiculite. I do add lime and wood ash each year, more compost as each crop comes out of the bed, some greensand, rock phosphate, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, etc. depending on what's going into the bed during the next rotation. Mine are surrounded by cinder blocks and the soil a little below the depth of the cinder block was also improved.

Mel's Mix is a good starting point but I would be careful and have soil tests done at least every couple years. Compost, greensand, lime, wood ash and kelp meal are all on the alkaline side... I've been adding compost and much of my yard went from the low 6's to almost a 7.0 pH from all the additions over the last 5-10 years.

A raised bed you need to have good drainage below it, but you need to consider the raised bed as a container and use a similar type mix.

[TZ-OH6]

If I go with the winter rye I only till (turn soil over with a shovel) in the fall right before seeding. In the spring, a couple of weeks after cutting it down I transplant through the stubble. The rye gets cut down when flower/seed heads first appear. It will not grow back if cut at that time. I just leave it lay as a mulch. If it is not old enough when it comes time to plant I could spray it with Roundup. Tilling it under is out because I don't have a rototiller.

If you want to do some sort of cover crop check your local farmer's exchange coop or feedstores for best prices. Online winter rye seed fom someplace like Johnnys Select Seeds is $3-$4/lb before shipping. I got my seed for $0.70/lb in Oct/Nov. I'm sure if the local nursery sold it it would cost more.

Slugs can kill off a large proportion of the sprouting seeds.

[celticman]

First cost is always a concern. I rebuild half my raised beds 2x12 from the habitate for humanity reclaim center. (20 at eight to ten foot for $65) My experience with treated wood in clay is it gives you 12 to 14 years as opposed to 10 to 12 for untreated wood. As for fill find a soil company that will deliver good quality top soil mixed with composted cow droppings fill the beds and turn every year going deep enough to mix some of the clay in and add compost. The worms will do most of the work for you moving the soil it deeper and the well clay will help the soil retain moister. Clay is better (minerals)and more enviromentally freindly than peat.
As mentioned above 3 to 4 feet wide with plent of room between is ideal. (my beds are to close in places)
Celtic

[bigbubbacain]

*I'd make my raised beds 3' wide instead of 6'.

*I'd use electrical conduit for "hoops" to support my bird netting and plastic
(if necessary), instead of 8' tall T posts.

*I'd have an extra zone and valve plumbed into my sprinkler system with risers extending for each bed in order to attach drip irrigation.

I'd screen my sources for soil and compost more carefully and spend the extra dollar to drive farther to obtain a better growing media. This I'll do anyway because I've got developed a bumper crop of Chickweed that I cannot get rid of.

[dice]

I read that chickweed fixes nitrogen in the soil, like clover, peas,
beans, etc. It has shallow roots, so you can probably knock it
down selectively with an organic, burn-down herbicide (like
Scythe, although there may be cheaper alternatives).

I consider it a boon where I find it. I dig it up in fall or early
spring and move it into the paths between tomato rows.
Walking on it all summer and mulching usually keeps it from
getting out of hand for me.

It is also edible and healthy, although not especially tasty.
(I guess one could add it to soup and then drop in some
really hot pepper with it, hot enough to overpower most
of the other flavors.)