Ph of Water for Germinating

Germinator · January 21, 2012

Recently, while germinating some sprouts, the instructions said to use purified water with a Ph of 6.0, (no chlorine). Our city water is about 7.0 or a little higher and they purify it with something besides chlorine, I think. Anyhow, is it important to pay attention to the water one uses while germinating and growing from seed? I know that chlorine water will tend to kill the worm castings in tea, which I do use for my seedlings. I don't have RO in my house, just a simple under-the-counter water filter and use my outside water to water with?

Thanks for any light anyone can shed on this.

Worth1 · January 21, 2012

I have used chlorine smelling tap water with great results.
If your worried just go down and get some cheap bottled water.

Worth

**carolyn137** · January 22, 2012

I've sown tomato seed wherever I lived and that means just north of Albany, NY, at the farm when I was younger and we had acres of tomatoes, no chlorine then, in Rochester, NY, where there was chlorine, then in Denver, where there was chlorine, then back to the farm in 1982 where things had changed and now chlorine, and then to an apt nearby where there was chlorine, and then to my home here where there's no chlorine, just an 80 ft deep well in rock with delicious cold water.

I never knew the pH of any of the water I used and all turned out wonderfully.

Just think back to the commercial farmers from the late 1800's onwards and they didn't concern themselves with pH or anything else in the water they used.

These days I think folks tend to be overly scientific about growing tomatoes from all the threads I see here in this seed starting Forum, I really do.

Got Worms? · January 22, 2012

Hello, Germinator.
My tap water is usually adjusted fairly close to neutral, (PH of 7) and I do not use it on my garden, because of the chlorine. I use rain water only. In large quantity, the chlorine appears to stunt the plants growth.

In contrast, I have mostly used tap water for my seed germination and to grow my starts, albeit filtered...Brita..(no plug here)...and now...I wonder "was my not so great germination rate due to chlorine?" and will it improve if I use rainwater? IE: melted snow (we have some now!), because I'm way too ~~cheap~~ economical to buy bottled water.

I have noticed that the municipalities will "juice up" their water delivery systems in the evening so as to have that stronger concentration of chlorine lay in the pipes overnight to work it's bug killing magic. Hence the strong chlorine smell when you first open the faucet in the morning to brush your teeth, and have to let it run to clear the line out. So...time of day, and dosing procedure has a bit to do with the quality of the water also.

There is also another chlorine type additive being used that does not dissipate as readily when brought into contact with oxygen and sunlight. Of course I can not remember the name.

Ph, at least here in the NE where the water tends to be acidic, is adjusted by the injection of sodium hydroxide 'till the target range (usually 7 ) is achieved. Sodium hydroxide is a caustic substance. Is sodium hydroxide bad for germination? I don't know.

Side by side testing is needed. If all goes well, I'll try some testing on my next batch of seeds. I'm always looking for the best way, or at least a better way. Good luck with your germinating endeavorers.

I haven't posted in a while, and so it seems that I have a lot stored up...and now that my bottle has become uncorked...well...
Charlie

fortyonenorth · January 22, 2012

I wonder if the chlorine-in-irrigation-water caution is linked to research into chloride-based salt fertilizers, (e.g. potassium chloride). At least one study suggests that chloride in synthetic fertilizers can impact seed germination rates, though the results were variable depending on crop and other environmental conditions. The one consistent finding, however, was that chloride did not benefit seed germination.

I read about the study second hand, but a quick Google search turned up this abstract: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...81202/abstract

All this said, I've used chlorinated tap water for years and my germination rates, with quality seeds, are near 100%.

SEAMSFASTER · January 22, 2012

That's been my experience as well - good germination rates with any water source, within reason, regardless of pH or presence of chlorine.

On the other hand, 2011 was the wettest Spring on record here. I collected hundreds of gallons of rainwater and used that water exclusively for raising my seedlings (several thousand).

They were the healthiest seedlings I've ever raised, and I received a lot of positive feedback from customers about the health and production from those plants.

The low levels of carbonic acid and nitric acids (particularly associated with thunderstorms) in unpolluted rainwater result in a pH of around 5.6.

Where I live, the native soil pH is around 7.6 and culinary water has high levels of dissolved calcium ions. So around here, I think it's worth the effort to use rainwater instead of culinary water to help reduce pH in the rhizosphere and thereby improve uptake rates of cations by plant roots. This is in addition to benefits of dissolved nitrogenous molecules in rainwater.

This is anecdotal evidence, of course, as I have neither conducted a controlled study nor taken the time to see if others have.

In areas where soil pH is lower, and particularly where acid rain is an issue (such as the northeastern U.S.), I would assume that culinary water, particularly if derived from groundwater, might very well be superior to rainwater for raising tomatoes and most other garden veggies.

rockhound · January 22, 2012

There is always some paranoid talk about dangerous chlorine, but plants need chlorine to make chlorophyll, every green plant needs it.

erlyberd · January 24, 2012

Not sure but I have well water but does'nt chlorine evaporate/gas off in 24hrs if left in an open milk jug? Go to some tropical fish web site and type in "water changes and cholrine."

Worth1 · January 25, 2012

I have sprouted seeds in plain old tap water and yard dirt many many times.

Sand works good to.
Or is it I just dont know any better.

Worth

erlyberd · January 25, 2012

Just checked as I was curious. Chlorine is tyipically gased of in the first 24hrs of sitting in an open container. Lets say you wan't to declonate 5 gals or more of h2o quicker than overnight then you need to pick up an air pump and air stone from an aquarium supply store and your golden. Submerge the air stone in the water, install a one-way check valve and plug in the pump. Total price? $20.00 maybe. Lots of people do this with sensitve freshwater fish.I do agree with Carolyn. Lets keep it simple. Its ok to play around and experiment though!

January 21, 2012	#1
Germinator Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: No. California Posts: 69	Ph of Water for Germinating Recently, while germinating some sprouts, the instructions said to use purified water with a Ph of 6.0, (no chlorine). Our city water is about 7.0 or a little higher and they purify it with something besides chlorine, I think. Anyhow, is it important to pay attention to the water one uses while germinating and growing from seed? I know that chlorine water will tend to kill the worm castings in tea, which I do use for my seedlings. I don't have RO in my house, just a simple under-the-counter water filter and use my outside water to water with? Thanks for any light anyone can shed on this.

January 22, 2012	#3
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I've sown tomato seed wherever I lived and that means just north of Albany, NY, at the farm when I was younger and we had acres of tomatoes, no chlorine then, in Rochester, NY, where there was chlorine, then in Denver, where there was chlorine, then back to the farm in 1982 where things had changed and now chlorine, and then to an apt nearby where there was chlorine, and then to my home here where there's no chlorine, just an 80 ft deep well in rock with delicious cold water. I never knew the pH of any of the water I used and all turned out wonderfully. Just think back to the commercial farmers from the late 1800's onwards and they didn't concern themselves with pH or anything else in the water they used. These days I think folks tend to be overly scientific about growing tomatoes from all the threads I see here in this seed starting Forum, I really do. __________________ Carolyn

January 21, 2012	#2
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I have used chlorine smelling tap water with great results. If your worried just go down and get some cheap bottled water. Worth

January 22, 2012	#4
Got Worms? Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: NY Zone 5b/6a Posts: 546	Hello, Germinator. My tap water is usually adjusted fairly close to neutral, (PH of 7) and I do not use it on my garden, because of the chlorine. I use rain water only. In large quantity, the chlorine appears to stunt the plants growth. In contrast, I have mostly used tap water for my seed germination and to grow my starts, albeit filtered...Brita..(no plug here)...and now...I wonder "was my not so great germination rate due to chlorine?" and will it improve if I use rainwater? IE: melted snow (we have some now!), because I'm way too ~~cheap~~ economical to buy bottled water. I have noticed that the municipalities will "juice up" their water delivery systems in the evening so as to have that stronger concentration of chlorine lay in the pipes overnight to work it's bug killing magic. Hence the strong chlorine smell when you first open the faucet in the morning to brush your teeth, and have to let it run to clear the line out. So...time of day, and dosing procedure has a bit to do with the quality of the water also. There is also another chlorine type additive being used that does not dissipate as readily when brought into contact with oxygen and sunlight. Of course I can not remember the name. Ph, at least here in the NE where the water tends to be acidic, is adjusted by the injection of sodium hydroxide 'till the target range (usually 7 ) is achieved. Sodium hydroxide is a caustic substance. Is sodium hydroxide bad for germination? I don't know. Side by side testing is needed. If all goes well, I'll try some testing on my next batch of seeds. I'm always looking for the best way, or at least a better way. Good luck with your germinating endeavorers. I haven't posted in a while, and so it seems that I have a lot stored up...and now that my bottle has become uncorked...well... Charlie

January 22, 2012	#5
fortyonenorth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,150	I wonder if the chlorine-in-irrigation-water caution is linked to research into chloride-based salt fertilizers, (e.g. potassium chloride). At least one study suggests that chloride in synthetic fertilizers can impact seed germination rates, though the results were variable depending on crop and other environmental conditions. The one consistent finding, however, was that chloride did not benefit seed germination. I read about the study second hand, but a quick Google search turned up this abstract: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...81202/abstract All this said, I've used chlorinated tap water for years and my germination rates, with quality seeds, are near 100%.

January 22, 2012	#6
SEAMSFASTER Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: American Fork, Utah Posts: 160	That's been my experience as well - good germination rates with any water source, within reason, regardless of pH or presence of chlorine. On the other hand, 2011 was the wettest Spring on record here. I collected hundreds of gallons of rainwater and used that water exclusively for raising my seedlings (several thousand). They were the healthiest seedlings I've ever raised, and I received a lot of positive feedback from customers about the health and production from those plants. The low levels of carbonic acid and nitric acids (particularly associated with thunderstorms) in unpolluted rainwater result in a pH of around 5.6. Where I live, the native soil pH is around 7.6 and culinary water has high levels of dissolved calcium ions. So around here, I think it's worth the effort to use rainwater instead of culinary water to help reduce pH in the rhizosphere and thereby improve uptake rates of cations by plant roots. This is in addition to benefits of dissolved nitrogenous molecules in rainwater. This is anecdotal evidence, of course, as I have neither conducted a controlled study nor taken the time to see if others have. In areas where soil pH is lower, and particularly where acid rain is an issue (such as the northeastern U.S.), I would assume that culinary water, particularly if derived from groundwater, might very well be superior to rainwater for raising tomatoes and most other garden veggies.

January 22, 2012	#7
rockhound Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Tennessee Posts: 285	There is always some paranoid talk about dangerous chlorine, but plants need chlorine to make chlorophyll, every green plant needs it.

January 24, 2012	#8
erlyberd Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CT Zone 5 Posts: 186	Not sure but I have well water but does'nt chlorine evaporate/gas off in 24hrs if left in an open milk jug? Go to some tropical fish web site and type in "water changes and cholrine."

January 25, 2012	#9
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I have sprouted seeds in plain old tap water and yard dirt many many times. Sand works good to. Or is it I just dont know any better. Worth