What I've learned about tomato breeding this year (*SIGH*)

crmauch · July 21, 2015

2014 was (mostly) a slam-dunk in terms of breeding success for me.

2015 - not so much. I only have one definite cross when I was aiming for 9. It was overly dry, then overly wet, and now overly hot. So it's an overly year

Here's what I believe I've learned:

6) 3 foot between rows and 2 between plants gets very tight late in the season.

5) Dwarf tomato as female parents are a pain in the #&#*@. The foliage is tight, the blossoms seem more delicate or have less 'stem' to play with, and seem very brittle. I've broken way too many pistils.

4) Plant out earlier -- risk a chance of frost is better that being delayed (after a year where my plants get killed by frost I'll probably retract this

)

3) Last year I had two of every breeding parent, this year to squeeze all my tomatoes in (57) I only have one of each parent. Stick with two (particularly on the female side to give me more choices of blossom).

2) Even if I'd prefer breeding in one direction, I should probably try breeding in both directions (both parents as female and male), to increase my odds of a cross.

1) My breeding methods are not perfection themselves [i.e. I still have much to learn.]

Jeanus · July 21, 2015

What I have learned. Current tomato flowers are small and hard to work with but good practice. Tomatoes do not like the flowers bagged and these will not develop much even with jiggling and vibrating. If you do a cross use some other color than green to mark it even if it is eye bleed, day glow, green you will still have issues finding it. The big one I need more tomatoes.

RobinB · July 21, 2015

I'm trying my first crosses this summer. So far, nothing... most are falling off. I'm going to keep trying though! I'm getting really good at emasculating blossoms. It's amazing the difference in the thickness of the styles is very different between cherries and beefsteaks. I am still not sure if I'm getting enough pollen on there. Collecting it hasn't been much of a problem though.

bower · July 21, 2015

One thing that's working for me is to prep two mother blossoms in the same cluster for the same cross. That gives me a better chance at least one of them will make it. If they both do, well, lots of F1 seeds. One tag on the cluster, so two for one there.

Another thing I found to be risky, in a couple of cases I chose an unopened first cluster on a side shoot that hadn't fruited yet. Because of the stage of setting and ripening all over, it happens that the plant may "de-select" that shoot for fruit bearing, so it stops growing and the crossed fruit don't grow either - or they may grow but much delayed.

I don't know if it's overkill to pollinate the crosses three days in a row, but I read advice to do it twice, so... anyway, it seems to work for me. I get my pollen by tapping the donor flowers against a small lid.. add fresh pollen each day from several flowers if I can get it - on Tom Wagner's description of how he collects - and repeat.
The ones that drop - probably my oafish clumsiness.

crmauch · July 22, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by bower

I get my pollen by tapping the donor flowers against a small lid.. add fresh pollen each day from several flowers if I can get it - on Tom Wagner's description of how he collects - and repeat.

I don't use the tapping/vibration as much as I've had many cases where I get nothing on my lens/lid by doing so. I will supplement the pollen I've collected by drying using other existing flowers and vibration.

KarenO · July 22, 2015

The bigger problem will be how/where to grow out the progeny of all those crosses. I am finding it challenging to grow out the segregating f3 s of one single cross
Kareno

AlittleSalt · July 22, 2015

I don't know about vibrating pollen, or mother blossoms, or emasculating blossoms, but I do know that you have all helped me understand more about what I always believed in. The recipe is 9 parts nature and 1 part human help.

crmauch · July 22, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarenO

The bigger problem will be how/where to grow out the progeny of all those crosses. I am finding it challenging to grow out the segregating f3 s of one single cross
Kareno

I am aware of the problem

Save seeds from all 'lines' this year. Then I can come back to them in later years if I need to. Then I'll choose my two 'favorites' of the F1 hybrids that seem to offer the closest of what I'm looking for. Each of those I'll grow 20-25 tomatoes. (I'll have to give up some of the variety of other tomatoes I've been growing).

One difference Karen (I think) is that your cross gave you multipe avenues (of kinds of tomato to develop.) I'm looking for one specific thing (multiple genes of course

), but one basic purpose:

High beta carotene
Paste tomato
Good flavor
Decent to good productivity
Indeterminate growth habit

Problem is that all the crosses shoul have high beta. Jaune Flamee should give me a better path to indeterminancy, but 97L97 crosses should gvie me better paste qualities. Decisions, Decisions...

July 21, 2015	#1
crmauch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: Honey Brook, PA Zone 6b Posts: 399	*What I've learned about tomato breeding this year (SIGH)* 2014 was (mostly) a slam-dunk in terms of breeding success for me. 2015 - not so much. I only have one definite cross when I was aiming for 9. It was overly dry, then overly wet, and now overly hot. So it's an overly year Here's what I believe I've learned: 6) 3 foot between rows and 2 between plants gets very tight late in the season. 5) Dwarf tomato as female parents are a pain in the #&#*@. The foliage is tight, the blossoms seem more delicate or have less 'stem' to play with, and seem very brittle. I've broken way too many pistils. 4) Plant out earlier -- risk a chance of frost is better that being delayed (after a year where my plants get killed by frost I'll probably retract this ) 3) Last year I had two of every breeding parent, this year to squeeze all my tomatoes in (57) I only have one of each parent. Stick with two (particularly on the female side to give me more choices of blossom). 2) Even if I'd prefer breeding in one direction, I should probably try breeding in both directions (both parents as female and male), to increase my odds of a cross. 1) My breeding methods are not perfection themselves [i.e. I still have much to learn.]

July 21, 2015	#2
Jeanus Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Tennessee Posts: 80	What I have learned. Current tomato flowers are small and hard to work with but good practice. Tomatoes do not like the flowers bagged and these will not develop much even with jiggling and vibrating. If you do a cross use some other color than green to mark it even if it is eye bleed, day glow, green you will still have issues finding it. The big one I need more tomatoes.

July 21, 2015	#3
RobinB Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Near Reno, NV Posts: 1,621	I'm trying my first crosses this summer. So far, nothing... most are falling off. I'm going to keep trying though! I'm getting really good at emasculating blossoms. It's amazing the difference in the thickness of the styles is very different between cherries and beefsteaks. I am still not sure if I'm getting enough pollen on there. Collecting it hasn't been much of a problem though.

July 21, 2015	#4
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,793	One thing that's working for me is to prep two mother blossoms in the same cluster for the same cross. That gives me a better chance at least one of them will make it. If they both do, well, lots of F1 seeds. One tag on the cluster, so two for one there. Another thing I found to be risky, in a couple of cases I chose an unopened first cluster on a side shoot that hadn't fruited yet. Because of the stage of setting and ripening all over, it happens that the plant may "de-select" that shoot for fruit bearing, so it stops growing and the crossed fruit don't grow either - or they may grow but much delayed. I don't know if it's overkill to pollinate the crosses three days in a row, but I read advice to do it twice, so... anyway, it seems to work for me. I get my pollen by tapping the donor flowers against a small lid.. add fresh pollen each day from several flowers if I can get it - on Tom Wagner's description of how he collects - and repeat. The ones that drop - probably my oafish clumsiness.

July 22, 2015	#6
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,924	The bigger problem will be how/where to grow out the progeny of all those crosses. I am finding it challenging to grow out the segregating f3 s of one single cross Kareno

July 22, 2015	#7
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	I don't know about vibrating pollen, or mother blossoms, or emasculating blossoms, but I do know that you have all helped me understand more about what I always believed in. The recipe is 9 parts nature and 1 part human help.