do all squash need trellising?

aimeruni · March 28, 2012

They will be grown in either raised beds or plastic storage containers with holes drilled in the bottom for irrigation. Size of storage containers for growing squash is 30-40 gallons; one plant per container. Storage Containers are about 1'-1/2' wide and about 1'-2' across.

'Bush types' have smaller vines (4'-6'); they're more compact, can be grown in limited space, tolerant of being spaced closer together.

All varieties are winter squash. Dimensions for all varieties are 3'-4' w/width (spread) and 1'-2' w/height (how tall).

How would you position a trellis in container? Is this possible? Do I just tie the vines w/fruit to trellis? If so when? How? Don't know, as I've never done this before.

Varieties are butternut, acorn, buttercup, spaghetti, delicata and pumpkin (small sugar types, 7-10 lbs. per fruit)

March 28, 2012

Squash will be a challenge to trellis- Most people let them sprawl. Each squash will have to be tied being so heavy.

**carolyn137** · March 28, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoParrott

Squash will be a challenge to trellis- Most people let them sprawl. Each squash will have to be tied being so heavy.

Agree, actually impossible b'c of the weight of the squash.

I'm forced to grow squash in gro bags now, 12 gal, as well as large containers and I plant 5 seeds of each variety in each gro-bag or container, four in a circle and one in the middle and then thin out to leave the best three plants.

And then just let them go wherever they want to. Less of a problem with summer squash which is more compact, but the winter varieties that you mentioned have long vines and I let them go where they want to go as well.

I'd prefer to be growing everything inground, but that's not possible now and when I did I'd have one 250 ft long row of squash, and plant those same 5 seeds beforehand in a 4 inch pot, knock the plants out of the pots and set the seedlings inground at about a 4 ft distance within the row and at least 5 ft from adjacent long rows.

If you want to get the squash seedlings up higher just buy some of those cheap ring structures, I get the 33 inch high ones and then let the plants cascade over those before the vines hit the ground, in my case lawn. If you think the squash will rot being on the ground just put a small board or something like that so that the squash aren't laying directly on the lawn or ground.

Works for me.

And then of course you have to cure the winter squash.

Mudman · March 28, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Agree, actually impossible b'c of the weight of the squash.

Not impossible, but a bit tricky.
http://www.vegetablegardener.com/★★★...kg16wo5_lg.jpg
I know these are not squash but I have seen the same done with larger squash. Smaller/Medium size ones will hang from a trellis and not fall off. I have grown both butternut and buttercup up cages and they just hang on the vine until I cut them loose.

kath · March 28, 2012

Like Mudman, I've grown 4 different varieties of butternut successfully on bamboo teepees without tying the fruits- Burpee Butterbush, Metro PMR, JWS 6823 and Autumn Glow.

Elizabeth · March 28, 2012

You should be able to trellis those varieties - you may need a sling like mudman shows (some use old nylons) for the bigger ones. I trellis my small types, but not straight up - I do mine on a slant so I don't have to sling - you can put things like lettuce and radishes under, they don't mind a bit of shade. I use the all metal cucumber trellis from Gardener's Supply Co. A little pricy, but it lasts for years. You need something pretty sturdy for squash, especially if you are in a windy area. Usually the vines will strengthen to hold the weight of the fruit so slinging isn't always needed, but you really need to keep an eye on the ripening or they will slip the vine and come crashing down when they are done.

aimeruni · March 29, 2012

Thanks for the suggestions regarding how to trellis the squash.

What exactly do you define as 'big' as far as the weight of the squash goes?

Listed below is the weight for my squash:

Butternut: 1-1/2 lbs. each; each plant bares 4-5 fruit, 5-7 lbs. total per plant

Acorn: Don't know how many fruit it bares per plant, doesn't say; each fruit is 2 lbs. each though

Spaghetti Squash: Each fruit is up to 2 lbs. each; again don't know how much fruit per plant, as it doesn't say.

Pumpkin (sugar pie type): 3-5 fruits per plant, each is 7-10 lbs.; so 35-50 lbs. total per plant.

Could you use the slanted trellis for stuff like melons? The cantaloupe I plan to grow bares many small fruited fruit rather than a couple large ones (about 1-2 lbs. each).

The larger ones are about 2-3 per plant, and each is ranges anywhere from 5-8 lbs.

Unfortunately with the trellis, it's too wide to fit in my containers. The largest ones only have a width of 30" to 42". Are there any trellises similar to what you showed, but in a smaller size?

I was debating using tomato cages (homemade from concrete reinforcement wire)
for the squash. Would they be strong enough to bare the weight of the fruit? Also if I were not to train them vertically would it contain the plant by being in the cage, or would it still sprawl?

If you're using a trellis, does it have to be the same size as the length and width of the plant, or does it not matter? Basically my plants are 3'-4' wide and
1'-2' tall. I'd have to make the width of the trellis smaller to fit in my containers. Would this create issues w/the plant for supporting the weight of the fruit (due to the trellis not being as wide as the spread of the plant).

Mudman · March 29, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimeruni

Could you use the slanted trellis for stuff like melons? The cantaloupe I plan to grow bares many small fruited fruit rather than a couple large ones (about 1-2 lbs. each).

You can grow all melons this way too, but you must sling them because most of them "slip" off the vine when ripe, unlike the squash which hang on long after. You should really look into Square Foot Gardening or The Square Foot Gardening Book. I think this will give you a lot of the answers you need for your situation. It shows how to grow everything vertically. Hope this helps.

kath · March 29, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimeruni

Thanks for the suggestions regarding how to trellis the squash.

What exactly do you define as 'big' as far as the weight of the squash goes?

Listed below is the weight for my squash:

Butternut: 1-1/2 lbs. each; each plant bares 4-5 fruit, 5-7 lbs. total per plant

Could you use the slanted trellis for stuff like melons? The cantaloupe I plan to grow bares many small fruited fruit rather than a couple large ones (about 1-2 lbs. each).

The larger ones are about 2-3 per plant, and each is ranges anywhere from 5-8 lbs.

I was debating using tomato cages (homemade from concrete reinforcement wire)
for the squash. Would they be strong enough to bare the weight of the fruit? Also if I were not to train them vertically would it contain the plant by being in the cage, or would it still sprawl?

I grew butternuts that weighed up to 4 pounds each on bamboo trellises which had a plant at the base of each of the 4 stakes. The fruits were not put in slings. Their were MANY butternuts on each trellis...and no problems supporting the weight.

Last year I grew melons and Burpee Butterbush squash, which only get to about 2 pounds each, on cages not even as strong as CRW and they supported the fruits just fine. I only grew melons that didn't slip, so I didn't support each one. I also grew a bush watermelon in the same way, but since the fruits grew up to 7 lbs., I used slings, but the cages each held 3 fruits without problems. I imagine the weight of a fully loaded tomato plant inside a cage would be equal to or greater than the weight of the melons or squash we're talking about, no?

Not training vertically would result in the vines doing their own thing and they would want to escape the cage and grow along the ground. It's important for the leaves of the plants to receive as much sun as possible, so you wouldn't want to keep them trapped in the bottom of a small cage. It's a lot of work to keep lots of these things growing up the cages because they're not natural climbers.

Jeannine Anne · March 29, 2012

I too have trellissed squash many times, the smaller squash like Delicata etc will hang on there , if you are concerned about the weight make a pantyhose sling to support the weight.

The stems seem to grow stronger when grown vertically.

I have not grown many in pots but have trelliesed plants grown in the ground and put up a frame for years , but I see no reason whatsoever for them not to grow in containers if the soil is enough and they are well fed and watered.

I have grown some prettyy big ones trellised with the aid of slings. As long as the sling is fastened to a secure trellis and not the plany itself.

Go for it, it is very doable.

XX Jeannine

aimeruni · March 30, 2012

Well people have said that it's required to train squash vertically if using a cage.

However do you have to train them to climb up a slanted trellis, or will they just climb up it themselves? If they will climb up it themselves, how do you position the trellis?

Unfortunately as stated before, the slanted trellis from gardener's company that somebody suggested before (the cucumber trellis) won't fit in my containers.

It's too large with the width of it. Like I said, the width of the largest container I can find is only 40"-42". The trellises are wider than this with their spread.

I did find a wooden one, but since it's made of wood, would it be sturdy enough to support the weight of the fruit?

I'm referring to the total weight of the fruit per plant, not each individual fruit.

Also if the trellis is smaller (in length and width....height and spread) than the length and width of the plant (the height and spread) does this matter or not? Basically would it create problems with the plant climbing up the trellis if it's smaller than the spread and width of the plants?

With the weight and having to use slings, I was primarily concerned about melons that are heavier in weight (10+ lbs each) However, with smaller cantaloupes, that are only 1-3 lbs. in each, would this be an issue? With smaller fruits I'm more concerned about the quantity since plants w/smaller fruits tend to yield a ton of them.

Tracydr · March 31, 2012

I trellis Armenian cucumber, which is a small melon and a heavy producer. It trellises very nicely on a fence or even up my cedar tree. I've used everything from wire fence, bamboo t-pees ( it outgrew that and went up the tree), small tomatoe cages and nylon trellis netting. I think a smaller melon like a musk melon would work similar to this, or even a loofah or gourd.
I prefer squash to be on the ground as they grow extra roots which helps not only with drought but also with SVBs, although as yet, I haven't dealt with the borers. When it gets hot, those extra roots seem to help in AZ.

CrazyAboutOrchids · March 31, 2012

I trellis squash every year; love the stuff but don't have the space to let it sprawl. I use pantyhose and make a sling for the squash so they don't break off the vines. Has worked for me for all including butternut. The pantyhose expands as the squash grows and does not injure the fruit.

Mudman · March 31, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyAboutOrchids

I trellis squash every year; love the stuff but don't have the space to let it sprawl. I use pantyhose and make a sling for the squash so they don't break off the vines. Has worked for me for all including butternut. The pantyhose expands as the squash grows and does not injure the fruit.

It is my opinion that the only fruit that need slings are the ones that slip off the vine when they ripen.

aimeruni · April 1, 2012

Thank you to all for suggestions and who have taken time to post on thread. Unfortunately (sorry if this rude, not my intent) some questions I asked weren't answered.

A wooden trellis would be being used; would it be strong enough to bare the weight of fruit? This is total weight of fruit per plant.

If squash plant is positioned w/trellis correctly do you still have to train the vines, or will it climb up the trellis itself? If you need to train vines, how? I don't know, as I've never done this before.

Do all melon varieties slip from vine? Don't know, as have never grown melons before.

Was told you need to anchor trellis to support it; there are no trees, fences, etc. to attach the trellis to as support.

Could I anchor trellis legs into soil; will be using soil mix which is more loose than regular dirt. Will I still be able to anchor legs into soil? If trellis is anchored into soil, how deep?

W/trellis where does the squash plant go with it? Under trellis? I don't know where to put squash plant, as have never used trellis before.

Was told to tie vines to trellis; is this just the vines that have fruit? Is it only necessary for fruit that is heavy w/weight or would you have to do so w/smaller fruited varieties too? Mainly asking about larger fruited cantaloupes (5+ lbs. each), watermelons (8-15 lbs. each), and pie pumpkins (7-10 lbs. each)

March 28, 2012	#1
aimeruni Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Brooksville FL, zone 9a Posts: 67	do all squash need trellising? They will be grown in either raised beds or plastic storage containers with holes drilled in the bottom for irrigation. Size of storage containers for growing squash is 30-40 gallons; one plant per container. Storage Containers are about 1'-1/2' wide and about 1'-2' across. 'Bush types' have smaller vines (4'-6'); they're more compact, can be grown in limited space, tolerant of being spaced closer together. All varieties are winter squash. Dimensions for all varieties are 3'-4' w/width (spread) and 1'-2' w/height (how tall). How would you position a trellis in container? Is this possible? Do I just tie the vines w/fruit to trellis? If so when? How? Don't know, as I've never done this before. Varieties are butternut, acorn, buttercup, spaghetti, delicata and pumpkin (small sugar types, 7-10 lbs. per fruit)

March 28, 2012	#6
Elizabeth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Diego Coastal - Zone 10b Posts: 204	You should be able to trellis those varieties - you may need a sling like mudman shows (some use old nylons) for the bigger ones. I trellis my small types, but not straight up - I do mine on a slant so I don't have to sling - you can put things like lettuce and radishes under, they don't mind a bit of shade. I use the all metal cucumber trellis from Gardener's Supply Co. A little pricy, but it lasts for years. You need something pretty sturdy for squash, especially if you are in a windy area. Usually the vines will strengthen to hold the weight of the fruit so slinging isn't always needed, but you really need to keep an eye on the ripening or they will slip the vine and come crashing down when they are done. __________________ Elizabeth If I'm going to water and care for a plant it had better give me food, flowers or shade.

March 28, 2012	#2
JoParrott Guest Posts: n/a	Squash will be a challenge to trellis- Most people let them sprawl. Each squash will have to be tied being so heavy.

March 28, 2012	#5
kath Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: zone 6b, PA Posts: 5,664	Like Mudman, I've grown 4 different varieties of butternut successfully on bamboo teepees without tying the fruits- Burpee Butterbush, Metro PMR, JWS 6823 and Autumn Glow.

March 29, 2012	#7
aimeruni Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Brooksville FL, zone 9a Posts: 67	Thanks for the suggestions regarding how to trellis the squash. What exactly do you define as 'big' as far as the weight of the squash goes? Listed below is the weight for my squash: Butternut: 1-1/2 lbs. each; each plant bares 4-5 fruit, 5-7 lbs. total per plant Acorn: Don't know how many fruit it bares per plant, doesn't say; each fruit is 2 lbs. each though Spaghetti Squash: Each fruit is up to 2 lbs. each; again don't know how much fruit per plant, as it doesn't say. Pumpkin (sugar pie type): 3-5 fruits per plant, each is 7-10 lbs.; so 35-50 lbs. total per plant. Could you use the slanted trellis for stuff like melons? The cantaloupe I plan to grow bares many small fruited fruit rather than a couple large ones (about 1-2 lbs. each). The larger ones are about 2-3 per plant, and each is ranges anywhere from 5-8 lbs. Unfortunately with the trellis, it's too wide to fit in my containers. The largest ones only have a width of 30" to 42". Are there any trellises similar to what you showed, but in a smaller size? I was debating using tomato cages (homemade from concrete reinforcement wire) for the squash. Would they be strong enough to bare the weight of the fruit? Also if I were not to train them vertically would it contain the plant by being in the cage, or would it still sprawl? If you're using a trellis, does it have to be the same size as the length and width of the plant, or does it not matter? Basically my plants are 3'-4' wide and 1'-2' tall. I'd have to make the width of the trellis smaller to fit in my containers. Would this create issues w/the plant for supporting the weight of the fruit (due to the trellis not being as wide as the spread of the plant).

March 29, 2012	#10
Jeannine Anne Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,553	I too have trellissed squash many times, the smaller squash like Delicata etc will hang on there , if you are concerned about the weight make a pantyhose sling to support the weight. The stems seem to grow stronger when grown vertically. I have not grown many in pots but have trelliesed plants grown in the ground and put up a frame for years , but I see no reason whatsoever for them not to grow in containers if the soil is enough and they are well fed and watered. I have grown some prettyy big ones trellised with the aid of slings. As long as the sling is fastened to a secure trellis and not the plany itself. Go for it, it is very doable. XX Jeannine

March 30, 2012	#11
aimeruni Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Brooksville FL, zone 9a Posts: 67	Well people have said that it's required to train squash vertically if using a cage. However do you have to train them to climb up a slanted trellis, or will they just climb up it themselves? If they will climb up it themselves, how do you position the trellis? Unfortunately as stated before, the slanted trellis from gardener's company that somebody suggested before (the cucumber trellis) won't fit in my containers. It's too large with the width of it. Like I said, the width of the largest container I can find is only 40"-42". The trellises are wider than this with their spread. I did find a wooden one, but since it's made of wood, would it be sturdy enough to support the weight of the fruit? I'm referring to the total weight of the fruit per plant, not each individual fruit. Also if the trellis is smaller (in length and width....height and spread) than the length and width of the plant (the height and spread) does this matter or not? Basically would it create problems with the plant climbing up the trellis if it's smaller than the spread and width of the plants? With the weight and having to use slings, I was primarily concerned about melons that are heavier in weight (10+ lbs each) However, with smaller cantaloupes, that are only 1-3 lbs. in each, would this be an issue? With smaller fruits I'm more concerned about the quantity since plants w/smaller fruits tend to yield a ton of them.

March 31, 2012	#12
Tracydr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2011 Location: Laurinburg, North Carolina, zone 7 Posts: 3,207	I trellis Armenian cucumber, which is a small melon and a heavy producer. It trellises very nicely on a fence or even up my cedar tree. I've used everything from wire fence, bamboo t-pees ( it outgrew that and went up the tree), small tomatoe cages and nylon trellis netting. I think a smaller melon like a musk melon would work similar to this, or even a loofah or gourd. I prefer squash to be on the ground as they grow extra roots which helps not only with drought but also with SVBs, although as yet, I haven't dealt with the borers. When it gets hot, those extra roots seem to help in AZ.

March 31, 2012	#13
CrazyAboutOrchids Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Zone 6 - CT Posts: 150	I trellis squash every year; love the stuff but don't have the space to let it sprawl. I use pantyhose and make a sling for the squash so they don't break off the vines. Has worked for me for all including butternut. The pantyhose expands as the squash grows and does not injure the fruit.

April 1, 2012	#15
aimeruni Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Brooksville FL, zone 9a Posts: 67	Thank you to all for suggestions and who have taken time to post on thread. Unfortunately (sorry if this rude, not my intent) some questions I asked weren't answered. A wooden trellis would be being used; would it be strong enough to bare the weight of fruit? This is total weight of fruit per plant. If squash plant is positioned w/trellis correctly do you still have to train the vines, or will it climb up the trellis itself? If you need to train vines, how? I don't know, as I've never done this before. Do all melon varieties slip from vine? Don't know, as have never grown melons before. Was told you need to anchor trellis to support it; there are no trees, fences, etc. to attach the trellis to as support. Could I anchor trellis legs into soil; will be using soil mix which is more loose than regular dirt. Will I still be able to anchor legs into soil? If trellis is anchored into soil, how deep? W/trellis where does the squash plant go with it? Under trellis? I don't know where to put squash plant, as have never used trellis before. Was told to tie vines to trellis; is this just the vines that have fruit? Is it only necessary for fruit that is heavy w/weight or would you have to do so w/smaller fruited varieties too? Mainly asking about larger fruited cantaloupes (5+ lbs. each), watermelons (8-15 lbs. each), and pie pumpkins (7-10 lbs. each)