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Old July 16, 2009   #16
SouthCoast
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I put together my pics of the mycorrhizae VS total chemical ferts. I used slow release fertilizers because I understand that slow release won't harm the happy soil bugs. Im totaly stoked that Im not the only grower who is into playing with soil microbes.

Check out my 5 foot tall Chard! Chard doesn't work well with mycorrhizae but im thinking its the Azospirillum.
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Old July 16, 2009   #17
SouthCoast
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Default Actually the mycorrhizae is the best deal ;o

Quote:
Originally Posted by amideutch View Post
THE FACTS

This is the info I got off the RTI site for Pumpkin Pro and for Mycogrow off the Fungi Perfecti site. The Pumpkin Pro coverage is 5lbs per 750 Sq. Feet and same coverage for the MycoGrow is 3oz.
If you notice on the Pumpkin Pro the only Mycorrhizae it contains is Glomus intraradices which is listed as a NON PLANT FOOD INGREDIENT! Which leads me to believe there probably is ferts in it as it is not 10lbs of pure Glomus intraradices!

The VAM (Vesicular Arbuscular Mycorrhyzae) contained in MycoGrow is;
Endomycorrhizal fungi Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus clarum, Glomus deserticola, Glomus etunicatum, Gigaspora margarita, Gigaspora brasilianum, Gigaspora monosporum Ectomycorrhizal fungi Rhizopogon villosullus, Rhizopogon luteolus, Rhizopogon amylopogon, Rhizopogon fulvigleba, Pisolithus tinctorius, Laccaria bicolor, Laccaria laccata, Scleroderma cepa, Scleroderma citrinum, Suillus granulatas, Suillus punctatapies







RTI PUMPKIN PRO:
4207 Bulk 10 lb. bag 10 lbs $60.00

PROAUXILIARY SOIL AND PLANT SUBSTANCE

NON PLANT FOOD INGREDIENT

Contains the following species of vesicular arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi:
Glomus intraradices.................120 spores cm3
In 2006, Ron Wallace used RTI inoculants to break the world record at 1,502 lbs.In 2007 it was used by growers that produced 10 of the top 20 largest pumpkins in the world, including Joe Jutra's new record breaking pumpkin at 1,689
Directions for Use:
Transplants and Rooted Cuttings: Place directly into the planting hole or in close proximity to the newly developing roots.
Potting Soil and Soil Amendments:
Mix thoroughly into the medium assuring that an abundant amount is present in the root zone. Broadcast and incorporate by tilling or hand mixing into the soil with the seed.
Application Rates:
-Mix into sowing medium before planting seeds
-Broadcast and till at 5 lbs. per 750 sq. ft.
-Mix approx. 1/2 cup into planting hole
-Mix approx. 1/2 cup into any area where rooting is promoted


FUNGI PERFECTI MYCOGROW:


MycoGrow™ Soluble
for Potting Soils & Rooting Media
MycoGrow™ Soluble is similar to Plant Success™ Tabs but is more concentrated, containing more spores and more species, plus other beneficial organisms. Consisting of powdered spore mass rather than tablets, MycoGrow™ Soluble is great for adding to rooting media or commercial potting soils. Sold in one pound and one ounce increments. An ounce is sufficient to treat 125–250 plants covering approximately 250 square feet.
One ounce $5.95
One pound $79.95
Note: this product cannot be shipped to Hawaii.

Contains concentrated spore mass of the following: Endomycorrhizal fungi Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus clarum, Glomus deserticola, Glomus etunicatum, Gigaspora margarita, Gigaspora brasilianum, Gigaspora monosporum Ectomycorrhizal fungi Rhizopogon villosullus, Rhizopogon luteolus, Rhizopogon amylopogon, Rhizopogon fulvigleba, Pisolithus tinctorius, Laccaria bicolor, Laccaria laccata, Scleroderma cepa, Scleroderma citrinum, Suillus granulatas, Suillus punctatapies Trichoderma Trichoderma harzianum, Trichoderma konigii Beneficial Bacteria Bacillus subtillus, Bacillus licheniformis, Bacillus azotoformans, Bacillus megaterium, Bacillus coagulans, Bacillus pumlis, Bacillus thuringiensis, Bacillus stearothermiphilis, Paenibacillus polymyxa, Paenibacillus durum, Paenibacillus florescence, Paenibacillus gordonae, Azotobacter polymyxa, Azotobacter chroococcum, Sacchromyces cervisiae, Streptomyces griseues, Streptomyces lydicus, Pseudomonas aureofaceans, Deinococcus erythromyxa
I used the chart of common mycorrhizal products to see cost of each spore. The mycorrhizae I use is the cheapest per spore.
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Old July 16, 2009   #18
bohica
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I know it may be looked at as being biased because I have a store, but.....I am first and foremost a competitive gardener, I compete every year with Giant Pumpkins, we only have one shot at winning per plant so everything counts, I have to tell you that the tap roots I have this year using the RTI Pumpkin Pro are unreal, as big around as my finger!
I've tried several other brands in the past 5 years and just about gave up on mycorrhiza as a snake oil.....not anymore~!
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Old July 17, 2009   #19
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Maybe when we find out what else is in RTI Pumpkin Pro we will find out the answer to your question. Because 120 spores cm3 of just Glomus intraradices is not going to give you such dramatic results over products that contain 4 or more endo species plus multiple species of helper bacteria that act as nitrogen fixers and anti fungal pathogen bacteria.
And it should be pointed out that growing giant pumpkins is a science in it's own right as is cannibis growing. The protocals and the special nutrients solutions used is very complex. And to say one product was responsible for a record pumpkin is ludicrous. And by the way, the name of this site is Tomatoville, not Pumpkinville! Ami
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Old July 17, 2009   #20
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I am glad that you had to point out the name of this website as being Tomatoville not Pumpkinville..i didnt see it listed as cannabisville either....wheeew....I almost thought that this was the general discussion forum and the World record veggies and Mycorrhiza thread...oh wait...it is...., now that we have all that established.....
I wont say that this one product made the world record, what I am saying is that this particular product has worked wonders for me, mycorrhiza can have a boat load of different strains, if they dont make a difference to the crop you are planting, then what is the sense? It's kinda like saying that a stew must taste better because it has more meats in it...if the varieties are garbage or dont work with the stew....its just fluff and filler.
I am sorry that this rubbed you in such a way Ami, ease up, I am not trying to change your world, as a serious gardener, you should appreciate input from someone who takes soil biology seriously, mnaybe different methods really do work? Sometimes it is necessary to think outside of the box. The Giant have been told over and over by agronomist that the research and methods we use are at the forefront of gardening, maybe we can learn from each other, maybe the combination of Mycorrrhiza works very well with the Azospirillium that I am using, producing the results that I talk about, or maybe I noticed a trend in being able to review hundreds of soil test results and have applied something to my souil as a test that is helping out tremndously....
You make it hard to share techniques Ami....remember...just because I'm not doing it your way, doesnt mean it's not the right way....
Respectfully,
Tom
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Old July 17, 2009   #21
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Really, you should only need one spore. If it becomes a
mycorrhizal fungus that infects the roots of a seedling,
that fungus should grow right along with the seedling's
root ball.

Using hundreds or thousands of spores per seedling is
simply a shotgun approach, in case something eats the
one spore or the fungus that sprouted from it before
the fungus infects the roots (one or more of the other
spores will probably survive).
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Old July 17, 2009   #22
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I say, whatever works. The proof is in the garden. I think it would be interesting to take some type of microbial analysis of the soil--a "before & after" just to see how well these products colonize and do their thing.

All I know is that the products I've used in the past had only one type per species (e.g. one type of mycorrhizae, one type of strepto, or one tricho.)

Last edited by bigbubbacain; July 18, 2009 at 09:21 AM.
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Old July 18, 2009   #23
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bigbubba, there is a really cool pic that a grower posted on another website that shows the massive root system after using mycorrhiza, all of the stands of roots hair/fibers, I'll try to find it, it was really neat!
mx4inpa, you do have a point, I dont believe that any one product will make or break your growing season, but I do believe that what ever we can do to enhance to soil biology is a major plus!
Thanks for the welcome!!!!
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Old July 18, 2009   #24
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Bohica, we have been talking micorrhizae here at Tville for the past 3 years and have done our own tests courtesy Ray Newstead. If you want to talk mycorrhiza I will be more than happy to do so. This thread was about record vege's and Pumpkin Pro. Do a search of this site using mycorrhiza/e and you may learn something about what we talk about.
I e-mailed RTI last Wednesday concerning the makeup of Pumpkin Pro and still have not received an answer. Maybe you can answer that question. The Boat load of bacteria you talk about are biofertilizers and biopesticides. Here in the tomato growing world disease is one of our biggest enemies. And right now our tomato growing friends in your neighborhood are getting hit big time with Late Blight. The mycorrhizae strains all play different roles in the nutrient uptake of plants whether it be nitrogen fixation or phosphorous uptake. The Azospirillum you mentioned which I am assuming you are using in con★★★★★★★★ with Pumpkin Pro is a helper bacteria that stimulates and assists the Glomus genus (Endomycorrhiza) in nitrogen uptake. So when we use bioinoculants on our plants we want to give them the best chance for disease free and fruitful tomato production. And a mix that MycoGrow or BioVam provides can help us achieve that goal. There are other Myco blends out there that are basically the same but I am most familiar with the ladder.
So you see we are looking for the best tasting, most productive disease free heirloom/open pollinated tomatoes we can grow. And we will even take a giant one that will cover Texas sized toast for a BLT. So anytime you or SouthCoast
want to pass on your experiences or information with or about Microbial Biofertilizers please do. And I would be very much interested in hearing more about Azospirillum and it's availability. And if you like maybe we can get Ray (if willing) to do a comparison of your product side by side with BioVam or MycoGrow along with Actinovate in one of his Earth-Tainer's.

Regards, Ami
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Old July 18, 2009   #25
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Ami,
I will forward your question to RTI, these are some of the most informative guys I have met in the Mycorrhiza world, due to the fact that I have a store, I research alot, I wont just sell a product just because, I have a full time IT Director Job and dont rely on the store for my income, it started out more as a passion to find product that really works, most of us will go the extra mile for effective product, I understand your concerns 100%, I too need to be able to introduce only the best products into my soil.
I know you dont want to hear about the pkn growing, but as with Giant Pumpkin growing you seem to be well informed and educated about soil biology, most of the more sucessful growers are, this is why I became a member, to be able to hear what other growers are using and what techniques they are using, it doesnt matter what crop you are planting, if it improves the soil and plant health, it will work across the board.
I have literally tons of white papers on Mycorrhiza and Azos, I will be happy to share everything with you.
As of right now, I am not experiencing any disease or pest problems, my garden is very susceptable to a wide array of diseases, but I feel that the bio fungicide that I am using, along with the other mentioned products are all pieces of the puzzle that are keeping my plants healthy. When you need to sustain 30+ lbs of growth a day....you need the plants to be healthy, all of my plants get treated the same.
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Old July 19, 2009   #26
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bohica, thank you for the offer and will be taking you up on it. Yes, your growing regimen with pumpkins is a little different than tomatoes as is cannabis but I have learned a lot from those folks even on the organic side of the house. I work the communications side of the house with the military pushing data through OC192 pipes via DWDM.
Glad to hear your garden isn't having any disease problems. Mine is holding up pretty well considering all the rain we have had here in Germany for the past 2 weeks. BTW, what bio fungicide are you using? I primarily use Actinovate but have been supplementing it with Agri-Fos and locally purchased one which contains Azoxystrobin. Ami
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Old July 19, 2009   #27
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I am using Companion - 100 percent natural biological fungicide that both prevents and controls a broad spectrum of root and foliar diseases such as root rot, blight, wilt, bottom- and stem-rot, and bacterial leaf spot (Phytophthora, Pythium, Fusarium, Rhizoctonia, Sclerotinia and Xanthomonas campestris). Companion contains Bacillus subtilis GB03. The GB03 isolate combats disease pathogens though multiple modes of action. It quickly colonizes a plant's root hairs and literally crowds out disease producing microbes in the soil; it produces antibiotics that disrupt the cell wall formation of pathogens, causing the pathogens to desiccate and die; and it creates a beneficial Induced Systemic Resistance (ISR) whereby plants' own natural immune system is stimulated to better resist diseases. It doesnt harm Mycorrhiza either.
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Old July 19, 2009   #28
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Aside from the mycorrhizae causing my plants to be better than control in all respects I've ran into pest issues. Im using Silica to lessen the spread of the little guys with great results. You can see the Silica as a whitish powder on the leaves and on the tomatoes.

In the pic that ends with 422 you can see the infected beans and how close they are to the other plants. I've stoped the spread through using silica as a foliar spray.

Im sure the Azospirillum and mycorrhizae working with the roots making the plants healthier before infection (if it does spread) helps fight off pathogens.
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Old July 19, 2009   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohica View Post
it produces antibiotics that disrupt the cell wall formation of pathogens, causing the pathogens to desiccate and die; and it creates a beneficial Induced Systemic Resistance (ISR) whereby plants' own natural immune system is stimulated to better resist diseases. It doesnt harm Mycorrhiza either.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[/FONT]

Check out this book: Multigenic and induced systemic resistance in plants By Sadik Tuzun, Elizabeth Bent

The content in chapter 18 very informative

Here it is free:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2L0...ummary_r&cad=0
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Old July 19, 2009   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amideutch View Post
I e-mailed RTI last Wednesday concerning the makeup of Pumpkin Pro and still have not received an answer.
http://www.reforest.com/desk/questions/6493/Pumpkin+Pro
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