Ultrasorb vs perlite

[momato]

I wonder if it will make a good mulch in my raised beds it's absorbing my thoughts

[drew51]

This is a good discussion, and we should remember that perlite, and vermiculite also contain silica. So caution should be used with those products too. Both have lot's of dust!

[matilda'skid]

At one time some vermiculite was from a mine where there was asbestos. I am sure they are being careful of that now but I use perlite because I haven't heard anything like that about it.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by matilda'skid

At one time some vermiculite was from a mine where there was asbestos. I am sure they are being careful of that now but I use perlite because I haven't heard anything like that about it.

I like perlite myself.

Worth

For your reading pleasure.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...1TEweZaD095KJg

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...GW-y5UkGMA6zTA

[RayR]

Originally Posted by matilda'skid

I am tempted to use the Ultra sorb and would be careful, but I am cautious. People from my generation used asbestos in their homes on the bottom of hot pads and lead for Christmas decorations. My Dad was on a ship for bomb tests and they hosed off the radiation ha ha. Sometimes the dangers come out later. I'm not being over cautious.

Diatomaceous Earth is the cell walls of dead diatoms deposited millions of years ago on ancient sea beds. DE is composed of 80-90% amorphous silica, 1%-2% silica is the crystalline form (cristobalite), the rest is mostly metal oxides. It's as safe as sand in it's natural state. The type of DE used for food grade powders and horticultural use is from ancient inland fresh water seas, it has a low salt content and a lower content of crystalline silica than salt water DE.

Filter grade DE is a man-made form, they take mined DE, grind it into a fine powder, mix it with soda ash and heat it a high tempertures which crystallizes the DE and expands its pour structure. The high content of crystalline silica is potentially dangerous to breath into the lungs. Continuous exposure over a period of time can lead to Silicosis or Pneumoconiosis.

[matilda'skid]

Maybe the coarse stuff is OK. But I don't see how the materials used to kill bugs is OK for human lungs. It isn't a poison it is tiny sharp particles. Remember in my youth asbestos was in hair dryers, all over Navy ship pipes and ceilings in my dorm, so I may seem paranoid. Years later mesothelioma for some unlucky ones.

[habitat_gardener]

The coarse stuff does have a lot of dust. Ultrasorb is not food grade powder and is not sold for horticultural use. So is it filter grade or something else?

[Salsacharley]

I made my potting mix this year (for 4" pots) out of 1/2 peat, 1/6 perlite, 1/6 vermiculite and 1/6 Ultrasorb. So far it has worked great. When the mix is moist it feels "spongy" and my plants are smiling. I've been adding Texas Tomato Food once per week since the mix has no siginficant nutrients.

It is a good idea to duck when you pour in those dusty ingredients to mix them up because there is some scary looking dust....or you could wear a mask if you're smart like others caution above.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by matilda'skid

Maybe the coarse stuff is OK. But I don't see how the materials used to kill bugs is OK for human lungs. It isn't a poison it is tiny sharp particles. Remember in my youth asbestos was in hair dryers, all over Navy ship pipes and ceilings in my dorm, so I may seem paranoid. Years later mesothelioma for some unlucky ones.

For the paranoid.

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/degen.html

Originally Posted by habitat_gardener

The coarse stuff does have a lot of dust. Ultrasorb is not food grade powder and is not sold for horticultural use. So is it filter grade or something else?

Any rock or rock-like material will create dust. Sand, Perlite, DE or whatever.
The only difference between "Food Grade" and DE used for other purposes is to be called "Food Grade", it has to be tested to confirm it hasn't any harmful contaminants.
Like I said before, "filter grade" is man-made from the natural DE deposits. It's only good for one thing—filtering.
Food Grade DE, DE for Absorbents, or DE for Horticultural use is all the same thing, natural mined fresh water DE. They can come from the same exact mine, just processed and sold for different purposes.

[drew51]

Originally Posted by habitat_gardener

The coarse stuff does have a lot of dust. Ultrasorb is not food grade powder and is not sold for horticultural use. So is it filter grade or something else?

Filter grade is processed and expensive, it's food grade. It's very safe! As safe as perlite. If you think perlite is not good thing to work with, then stay way from DE.
Don't use it if you feel it's not safe, but I'm so glad I found this stuff. It's really going to improve my gardening. I just made a batch of potting soil with it for my blueberries. I wore a mask, no big deal, hardly any dust, and once in the soil zero chance of dust.
Now to make soil for my tomatoes and peppers! Cheap too! Yes!

What I want to try and make clear is perlite and vermiculite also have silica that causes silicosis, so if you think you are being safer by using perlite you are 100% incorrect. It's just as dangerous as DE.
The same cell membrane piercing glass is in perlite and vermiculite.
Google it, you will see I'm right on this. Look on the label of any perlite.

[matilda'skid]

W. R. Grace went broke because of vermiculite with asbestos. I think they are being careful with that now but it turned me off vermiculite. I know it is probably safe now. RayR had a good link and after reading that I feel that DE is something I can use with caution. His link was not from anyone selling the stuff at least on the surface it looks like an objective article.

[Ed of Somis]

I know some people here are afraid to mention the "Garden Web" word....but that website has a wealth of information in the "container" growing sub-topic. Napa auto parts has a garage floor absorbent product that is widely used in custom potting mixes. It is an ingredient similar to turface...in that it "perches" water in the mix. Thus, water/nutrients are made available to the plant.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by matilda'skid

W. R. Grace went broke because of vermiculite with asbestos. I think they are being careful with that now but it turned me off vermiculite. I know it is probably safe now. RayR had a good link and after reading that I feel that DE is something I can use with caution. His link was not from anyone selling the stuff at least on the surface it looks like an objective article.

From what I have seen and read these people need to go to prison as well as broke.
The documentary I saw a few years ago showed they had no regard for human life.

Montana has been ravaged by greedy mining companies that have left the tax payer to clean up.

I need a drink.

Worth

[kevn357]

Originally Posted by Ed of Somis

I know some people here are afraid to mention the "Garden Web" word....but that website has a wealth of information in the "container" growing sub-topic. Napa auto parts has a garage floor absorbent product that is widely used in custom potting mixes. It is an ingredient similar to turface...in that it "perches" water in the mix. Thus, water/nutrients are made available to the plant.

Do you have a link? NAPA does have there own DE product similar to ultrasorb and optisorb that OP mentions that is made by Molten. I found the NAPA version to be quite different though so I'm wondering if that's what you are speaking of.

[kevn357]

My limited knowledge of DE compared to Perlite is to wear a mask with both just to be safe. I've used both in my soil-less mixes and will continue to do so. Note all DE is not the same! I had great success with the Molten varieties (optisorb, ultrasorb, oilsorb?) that is sold at autozone and I found the NAPA version was quite different and really stunned my seedlings after transplanting last year. The PH and other elements besides DE vary from different manufacturers.