Saving Tomato Seeds Questions

[AlittleSalt]

8 days ago I started saving Juliet tomato seeds. The are from Juliet F1 tomatoes. I'm just curious to see F2s.

I saved a lot of seeds last year of other tomatoes and peppers. I did the exact same things this year as well. I placed a coffee filter on the top of the jar and set them out in a semi-shaded area. What is odd is there is no floating muck on top of this batch of seeds. The water is discolored and has no floating seeds.

Does the fact that there is no floating muck mean anything?

Also, do I have to let them dry before planting some of them in seed cells?

[ContainerTed]

Salty, I personally feel that too much emphasis is placed on that fungal mat. As long as the seeds have sunk to the bottom and the gel sacs have all dissolved away, there is no more that can be done. The sole purpose of the process is to separate the seeds from the gel sacs. It is beneficial if the complete fermentation process is accomplished, as this will kill off many of the seed borne pathogens.

And, you can plant those seeds wet whenever you feel the urge. Drying is only useful for storing seeds over time. So, you can take some seeds right out of the freshly cut tomato and plant them immediately. Even if the gel sac is still attached, it will only delay germination a few hours while the gel dissolves.

[AlittleSalt]

Thank You Ted









Very useful site Cole. I do plan on saving a lot of seeds.

[Cole_Robbie]

I like using Oxy Clean to avoid being uncertain about my fermenting skills:
http://settfest.feldoncentral.com/2009/01/saving-seeds/

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

8 days ago I started saving Juliet tomato seeds. The are from Juliet F1 tomatoes. I'm just curious to see F2s.

I saved a lot of seeds last year of other tomatoes and peppers. I did the exact same things this year as well. I placed a coffee filter on the top of the jar and set them out in a semi-shaded area. What is odd is there is no floating muck on top of this batch of seeds. The water is discolored and has no floating seeds.

Does the fact that there is no floating muck mean anything?

Also, do I have to let them dry before planting some of them in seed cells?

And I always use fermentation since data is available as to which pathogens might be destroyed if they are in the gunk, since several folks have looked into the oxidative methods and not found any such data that Dr, Helene Dillard did with fermentation.

But even with frmentation sometimes i see no fungal mat on top of the gunk, just thin watery reddish colored, no floating seeds and IMO such events happen depending on the pH of the initial gunk since there are those varieties that do have a lower acicid pH than others.

I like having that fungal mat since enzymes are made that help take the gel capsules off the seeds.

And as Ted said, you don't have to dry the seeds before sowing them. I was sent whole fruits for what became the variety Sara's Galapagos, took out some seeds and did not process tham at all and got 100% germination.

In my area of upstate NY there are few soilborne diseases, most prominent are the common foliage diseases, but if I lived in another area where soilborne diseases are usually found I would select fermentation over an oxidative method, just playing it safe.

Carolyn

[BlackBear]

has anybody heard of the hot water/boiling water bath method ...treats

for seed disease on outside of seed and inside ????

only problem is timing ? the exposure to the hot water has to be not to long (or cooked seeds) and not to short (treatment ineffective ???)

will look this up a bit more. The exposure is timed ..so one has to be alert.

I always wondered about the different size seeds of different varieties in the guestimate factor of treatment timing for this method.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by BlackBear

has anybody heard of the hot water/boiling water bath method ...treats

for seed disease on outside of seed and inside ????

only problem is timing ? the exposure to the hot water has to be not to long (or cooked seeds) and not to short (treatment ineffective ???)

will look this up a bit more. The exposure is timed ..so one has to be alert.

I always wondered about the different size seeds of different varieties in the guestimate factor of treatment timing for this method.

Yes, I do know about it and it's one of those items that when referred to it says....don't trythis at home. And it's so very true since it's almost impossible to maintain a specific temp for the length of time needed when doing it at home. And there is always a loss of seed viability when it is done.

In seed catalogs you'll see that seeds for some varieties are offered with or without hot water treatment and the only reason they do that is for bacterial pathogens which are found in the interior of seeds.The hot water treated seed is primarily done for large scale commercial farmers who do have problems with some bacterial pathogens.

Carolyn

[Worth1]

I treated some seeds in the back of the box van at work.

One of the guys was about to throw out a cup of gunk and asked what it was.
I told him it was his Black Prince seeds.

What a trip those seeds made.
From Texas to the far north of Alaska then to Seattle and on to Colorado.
Worth

[greyghost]

Blackbear,
There's a gardening blog I enjoy; the site is www.senior-gardening.com .

If you go to the site, look under "features", an article titled "saving tomato seed"
will have info on Hot Water Treatment for Seed" with some links. There is a
search feature on the blog also.

Also, if you look under the heading "Senior Garden Blog", you'll find a
monthly index for the last 8 years. It's described in the October 2011
blog with several links given.

You might find more references in his blog-I did just a quick search having
remembered I saw the write up there. I believe the reason he chooses to do
this is that he offers an heirloom "Moira" through SSE and is concerned about
anthracnose.

Having been a lab tech for a large chemical company, I had a setup under a hood to do similar. If you had a temp. controller (Variac) and hot plate, it may be easy to do if you felt you had the need to do it. I'd have to say, just reading about this caused me to feel a bit leery about trading seed, though. Darlene

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by BlackBear

has anybody heard of the hot water/boiling water bath method ...treats

for seed disease on outside of seed and inside ????

only problem is timing ? the exposure to the hot water has to be not to long (or cooked seeds) and not to short (treatment ineffective ???)

will look this up a bit more. The exposure is timed ..so one has to be alert.

I always wondered about the different size seeds of different varieties in the guestimate factor of treatment timing for this method.

Personally, I would be very afraid of this. I just do old fashioned fermentation, then drying on an absorbent paper plate or coffee filter. I get pretty good germination rates, at least that's what Tvillers mostly tell me when they get my seeds.
I would feel bad giving out bad seeds.

[BlackBear]

hmmmmmmm Hot Water it seems like less gunk and even quicker than 3 days of the standard fermentation process........

The fermentation process is the standard no mater ..what other methods on uses.

Hot water treatment ..is ..much safer than the "old country " grandma process of just making a tomato smear from a part of ripe fruit and spreading the contents very ...thin on a paper napkin ,,,,,,,,, and wick excess water away with under the holding napkin with an extra napkin ....then just hang the smeared napkin up to facilitate efficient drying out ...a couple days....then refolding napkin for storage
and marking . easy to carry with you if one has to move to a new country etc.
Simplicity saves seeds. also..thanks to all who carried the seeds to other parts of the world.

I think the oxyclean method looks like a good one also ...but part of me is just trying to take as much extra chemicals out of the process as possible (it might Not be possible ).

Sooooo if I understand when one does the Heat method it can be more effective for bacteria treatment on the "inside "of the seeds....but it can often cause loss of a percent of the seeds being treated .... making the seeds unacceptable and unpredictable for seed trading as the germination % can fluctuate .

But if one wanted to make sure one had a good treatment (even recovery) of a
rare special seed that had the pathogen on the inside ...would this not be the way??

If one did this method and had many seeds abundance (over seed) would not a loss of even 40% resulting in "Treated seed" inside and out be worth it ?
it is Like giving the survivor seeds/line a fresh pathogen free start.


I guess radiation treatment is not a good idea either the neighbours kind of get nervous.

[JamesL]

Hot water treatment is tricky. I would also not suggest it unless you have a PID controller and the ability to set up a proper hot water bath.
http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne...Treatment.html

That being said it is useful to have in your bag of tricks if you think a seed source is questionable.

[BlackBear]

yes agreed much awareness of one's options......

I am interested and might want to practice a bit of hot water treatment to say ..I can do it if needed...

but not really risk a full line of seeds etc.

As for now we are back to the fermentation .....ha ha ha

[greyghost]

James, Thanks for posting that link. I was surprised at the number of possible
seed borne diseases for tomatoes.

[ContainerTed]

I've looked at this issue and have come to the following conclusion. I really don't have a need for this kind of "perfection". If I think the seeds I have are too infested with these internal seed pathogens, then I'll simply get some seed from a source that doesn't have the problem.

I can't afford and don't have the inclination to perform this kind of heat treatment with its precise temperature controls and all kind of other fusses. It isn't worth my time. Let the so-called professionals do this. I'll put my time to harvesting what mother nature allows me to have. I'll plant extras so that mother nature can have her share.

Fermentation should be adequate for all my needs. I also do a process where I use Comet or whatever other scouring powder I have at the moment to scrub away the gel sacs. I also do a Clorox rinse on seeds coming out of the fermentation process. But, I don't do any of these things all of the time.

It's nice to know this "heat" process in case we need to "save" a variety from extinction. But it is not for me for my everyday use. This is just my lazy "70 years young" opinion. But, I know and respect that you may choose a different view.