Garden failed this year

cjp1953 · August 10, 2014

Well my first year with no till after 15 years of tilling did not go as planned.My tomato plants are stunted and have dropped blossoms due to cool weather.My pepper plants are yellow with poor growth.I never had my soil tested,so I went to a very good garden store and bought a soil test kit.Sent the test to Penn State as this was their test kit.My results were....Soil pH 7.2,Phosphate below optimum,Potash optimum,Magnesium above optimum and calcium above optimum.The recommendations are to apply 0.5 lbs per 100 square feet of Urea and 0-46-0.I'll do this next spring.Don't know what happened.I'm going to stick with no till,hoping next year will be better.

Redbaron · August 10, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjp1953

Well my first year with no till after 15 years of tilling did not go as planned.My tomato plants are stunted and have dropped blossoms due to cool weather.My pepper plants are yellow with poor growth.I never had my soil tested,so I went to a very good garden store and bought a soil test kit.Sent the test to Penn State as this was their test kit.My results were....Soil pH 7.2,Phosphate below optimum,Potash optimum,Magnesium above optimum and calcium above optimum.The recommendations are to apply 0.5 lbs per 100 square feet of Urea and 0-46-0.I'll do this next spring.Don't know what happened.I'm going to stick with no till,hoping next year will be better.

No-till is very generalised. Can you describe precisely what methods and materials you used? There are a lot of people on this forum who can lend their experiences to help...me being one.

cjp1953 · August 10, 2014

I had a winter cover crop of vetch,alfalfa,yellow clover and winter rye.I mowed it down,added grass clipping and let it set for a few weeks.I then planted into the mulch from that.I have a 6 to 8 inch cover of straw over it.I used Miracle gro for tomato's one time.Then bought Garden Tone and used it twice about 4 weeks apart.But the plants never responded to them.My garden get full sun all day.We had a very wet April and May.That may had some part in this as the garden store I bought the kit from had heard others having the same poor results.

cjp1953 · August 10, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjp1953

I had a winter cover crop of vetch,alfalfa,yellow clover and winter rye.I mowed it down,added grass clipping and let it set for a few weeks.I then planted into the mulch from that.I have a 6 to 8 inch cover of straw over it.I used Miracle gro for tomato's one time.Then bought Garden Tone and used it twice about 4 weeks apart.But the plants never responded to them.My garden get full sun all day.We had a very wet April and May.That may had some part in this as the garden store I bought the kit from had heard others having the same poor results.

I want to add that I have used a cover crop for 5 years,the first 3 years just winter rye.I also bought a Spear and Jackson digging fork that cost around $60.I will use that when I plant my tomato's and peppers next year.I did notice that the soil was damp and may have been loose enough when I planted.I always plant my tomato plants deep up to 3/4 of the plant.Peppers as deep as they were in the package.

Redbaron · August 10, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjp1953

I want to add that I have used a cover crop for 5 years,the first 3 years just winter rye.I also bought a Spear and Jackson digging fork that cost around $60.I will use that when I plant my tomato's and peppers next year.I did notice that the soil was damp and may have been loose enough when I planted.I always plant my tomato plants deep up to 3/4 of the plant.Peppers as deep as they were in the package.

When you were planting, did you dig up any worms?

cjp1953 · August 10, 2014

I had alot of worms.I watered once a week,soil never seemed to dry from the mulch I have on the ground.

Worth1 · August 10, 2014

PH too high, soil too wet, lack of nitrogen too much mulch maybe (if it was compacted) and cool weather all combined to create this disaster.
Maybe.

Worth

cjp1953 · August 10, 2014

I'm thinking that the grass clippings might have used nitrogen from the soil.When I called Penn State,I to thought the ph might have been a little high,but I was told it was fine for tomato and peppers.I always in the past had no problem growing large plants.This is the first time I had a garden fail with little production.With the cover crop I planted,you would of thought the nitrogen level would have been fine in the soil.The grass may have taken longer to break down.I don't know if I should use the digging fork to loosen things next spring without turning over the soil.Or do that this fall.I was thinking of mowing down the mulch and planting another cover crop in mid September.My garden is 12'x16'.Anyone do no till and plant a cover crop here on the forum?

Worth1 · August 10, 2014

It still wouldn't hurt to work on the PH tomatoes like a PH below 7- ideal is 6.5.
The PH of your soil was about 7 times higher than optimum for tomatoes.
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=33542

I am not against no till but one of the things you didn't do this year is till.
I am more of a fan of shallow cultivation to mix the dead clippings into the soil.
No more than one inch or so deep.
After that no more disturbing the soil for the rest of the growing season as this will hurt the very important feeder roots that are on top.

Worth

RayR · August 10, 2014

Some years you can do everything right and still get blindsided. I've had better seasons than this one for tomato myself. The season started out great, healthy plants and strong fruit set. I'm still picking plenty from that first run but then the cool wet weather and a very early onset of Septoria took it's toll on many of the plants, stunting and blossom drop. And spider mites showed up early too and added to the destruction.
On the other hand my peppers have been rockin!

drew51 · August 10, 2014

I'm in Michigan, and the spring was slow, but now conditions have been perfect for weeks. Harvest is fantastic. I use raised beds. They are filled with organic matter, each year much of it is used up, so I don't till, but the surface is new every year. I add 2 or 3 inches, but the beds have been shrinking more, so next year I will add 4 or 5 inches of organic matter. usually I use all compost, but I think I will add some garden soil. I need to raise the levels a bit for sure. When I say compost I mean manure, and also peat, the peat keeps the PH down and retains moisture. Plus I always have it on hand for my blueberries. I also add pine bark fines, and old potting soil. I have been doing this for 5 years and results are excellent.
I garden in containers and in ground too. I add compost to all. I change potting soil every 3 years or so. The natural soil is not bad, adding compost, has worked well for me. No cover crops, no tilling.
If my soil was low on Phosphate i would add rock phosphate as it will take a few years for it to be used up. Fertilizer will be gone in a NY minute.

cjp1953 · August 10, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

It still wouldn't hurt to work on the PH tomatoes like a PH below 7- ideal is 6.5.
The PH of your soil was about 7 times higher than optimum for tomatoes.
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=33542

I am not against no till but one of the things you didn't do this year is till.
I am more of a fan of shallow cultivation to mix the dead clippings into the soil.
No more than one inch or so deep.
After that no more disturbing the soil for the rest of the growing season as this will hurt the very important feeder roots that are on top.

Worth

So adding lime this fall when I plant my cover crop to lower the PH?

RayR · August 10, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjp1953

So adding lime this fall when I plant my cover crop to lower the PH?

Nooooo.... Lime will raise your PH. Your soil test said you have more than enough Calcium and Magnesium also.

Fred Hempel · August 10, 2014

In my experience: No Till = great concept, but impractical most years in most places.

No Till planting with our binding soils was a disaster.

Beyond soil structure problems we encountered, for us No Till = No spring gopher kill -- from ripping the field. And the un-anticipated gopher population increase was a disaster.

No till may also not work well when a) weed seedbank is not very low, and when b) organic matter is not pretty high.

Tania · August 11, 2014

We have been no-till since 2006. It works beautifully.
I did cover crops up to 2010, but do not do that anymore, except in garlic beds. We add lots of coffee grinds on top of the soil, and when soil warms up we add wood chips as mulch. Never need to water after that, and weeding is a breeze. Love it!

cjp, is this high pH normal for your area? It is quite high for peppers and tomatoes. I hope your next year will be bountiful!

Tatiana

August 10, 2014	#1
cjp1953 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cuyahoga Falls,Ohio Posts: 818	Garden failed this year Well my first year with no till after 15 years of tilling did not go as planned.My tomato plants are stunted and have dropped blossoms due to cool weather.My pepper plants are yellow with poor growth.I never had my soil tested,so I went to a very good garden store and bought a soil test kit.Sent the test to Penn State as this was their test kit.My results were....Soil pH 7.2,Phosphate below optimum,Potash optimum,Magnesium above optimum and calcium above optimum.The recommendations are to apply 0.5 lbs per 100 square feet of Urea and 0-46-0.I'll do this next spring.Don't know what happened.I'm going to stick with no till,hoping next year will be better.

August 10, 2014	#9
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	It still wouldn't hurt to work on the PH tomatoes like a PH below 7- ideal is 6.5. The PH of your soil was about 7 times higher than optimum for tomatoes. http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=33542 I am not against no till but one of the things you didn't do this year is till. I am more of a fan of shallow cultivation to mix the dead clippings into the soil. No more than one inch or so deep. After that no more disturbing the soil for the rest of the growing season as this will hurt the very important feeder roots that are on top. Worth Last edited by Worth1; August 10, 2014 at 05:56 PM.

August 10, 2014	#14
Fred Hempel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Sunol, CA Posts: 2,723	In my experience: No Till = great concept, but impractical most years in most places. No Till planting with our binding soils was a disaster. Beyond soil structure problems we encountered, for us No Till = No spring gopher kill -- from ripping the field. And the un-anticipated gopher population increase was a disaster. No till may also not work well when a) weed seedbank is not very low, and when b) organic matter is not pretty high. Last edited by Fred Hempel; August 10, 2014 at 10:56 PM.

August 11, 2014	#15
Tania Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anmore, BC, Canada Posts: 3,970	We have been no-till since 2006. It works beautifully. I did cover crops up to 2010, but do not do that anymore, except in garlic beds. We add lots of coffee grinds on top of the soil, and when soil warms up we add wood chips as mulch. Never need to water after that, and weeding is a breeze. Love it! cjp, is this high pH normal for your area? It is quite high for peppers and tomatoes. I hope your next year will be bountiful! Tatiana __________________ Tatiana's TOMATObase

August 10, 2014	#10
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	Some years you can do everything right and still get blindsided. I've had better seasons than this one for tomato myself. The season started out great, healthy plants and strong fruit set. I'm still picking plenty from that first run but then the cool wet weather and a very early onset of Septoria took it's toll on many of the plants, stunting and blossom drop. And spider mites showed up early too and added to the destruction. On the other hand my peppers have been rockin!

August 10, 2014	#11
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	I'm in Michigan, and the spring was slow, but now conditions have been perfect for weeks. Harvest is fantastic. I use raised beds. They are filled with organic matter, each year much of it is used up, so I don't till, but the surface is new every year. I add 2 or 3 inches, but the beds have been shrinking more, so next year I will add 4 or 5 inches of organic matter. usually I use all compost, but I think I will add some garden soil. I need to raise the levels a bit for sure. When I say compost I mean manure, and also peat, the peat keeps the PH down and retains moisture. Plus I always have it on hand for my blueberries. I also add pine bark fines, and old potting soil. I have been doing this for 5 years and results are excellent. I garden in containers and in ground too. I add compost to all. I change potting soil every 3 years or so. The natural soil is not bad, adding compost, has worked well for me. No cover crops, no tilling. If my soil was low on Phosphate i would add rock phosphate as it will take a few years for it to be used up. Fertilizer will be gone in a NY minute.