Goldman's Italian American

[AdrianaG]

I've been eagerly awaiting this big beauty to ripen and the time is finally about to come.

I see it mostly as a work of art, but the pleasure is counterbalanced by annoyance due to the fact that Amy Goldman author of The Heirloom Tomato hijacked the tomato from a store in Italy and renamed it for her dad's grocery store in Brooklyn. (Did she or did she not " improve" or possibly dehybridize it?)

It's supposed to be a paste tomato and the plant is yielding very few fruits so I may need to freeze the few as they ripen to come up with enough for a jar of sauce!

For now, is will serve as a temporary sculpture.

[Worth1]

I wonder what the real name is?

Amy Goldman named it after she said she found it at an Italian road side store.

Let us know how it is.

Worth

[Worth1]

Or I might add original name.

Worth

[AdrianaG]

I'm guessing it's one of the following:
Pera D'Abruzzo (said to be the father of all Cuore Di Bue)
Cuore Di Bue Abruzzese
Cuore Di Ponente
Canestrino Di Lucca
Pera d'Albenga
Cuore Di Bue Di Albenga

I'm happy to throw my hat in for one of the first two (which may be one and the same) since the Italian half of my husband's family came from Abruzzi.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by AdrianaG

I'm guessing it's one of the following:
Pera D'Abruzzo (said to be the father of all Cuore Di Bue)
Cuore Di Bue Abruzzese
Cuore Di Ponente
Canestrino Di Lucca
Pera d'Albenga
Cuore Di Bue Di Albenga

I'm happy to throw my hat in for one of the first two (which may be one and the same) since the Italian half of my husband's family came from Abruzzi.

First Tania's page for it

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/G...alian-American

Yes, she dehybridized it since so many authentic Italian heirlooms have been 'Improved" in recent years and only Amy would have or could have known it was an F1 if she decided to dehybridize it. And you can see that she SSE listed it herself, and perhaps dehybridized it since no F1's can be listed in the SSE yearbook/ Also,look at the pictures shown and you'll see quite a variation in shape and size which is typical of a dehybidization which has not been taken out to genetic stability.

Below is a Google IMAGES and again look at the variation in shape and size.


https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...64.94g8iB6orbU


With respect to your suggestions. The Goldman one is narrow at the top with a big bottom, so you can eliminate anythng with
Cuore as part of the name since they are hearts and are wide at the top and then taper down.

From your suggstions I go with the piriform ones such as the Albenga or Liguria or other named ones which are narrow at the top and big at the bottom.

What I don't understand is the lastone which has both Cuore and Albenga as part of the name which is a contradiction.

However, I really don't understand where some of the Italian names come from and here are some I'll be offering in my next seed offer, seeds from my friend Roberta in Parma, who indeed sent me two kinds of parma cheeses, very rare, as thanks for the varieties I sent her.

Here's what she sent me

Cuore di Bue Rosa
Chile
Belmonte Costoluto ( Belmonte I've grown, costoluto just means ribbed, so a ribbed Belmonte)
Belmonte Calabro
Cuore di Bue Albengo, ( there we go again, a contradiction)
Licata Rosa

And then some I already knew such as Re Umberto and Andes)


Amy and I were very good friends for many years, I helped her research her first two books on squash and melons. But there are many errors in her tomato book since she hired researchers who really didn't know what they were doing and gave back wrong info to her and she didn't know differently so the wrong info stood. Yes, she did research a few of them herself.

She used to drive up to my tomato field and collect fruits to take back home to save seeds from.Almost forgot that in the IMAGES pictures you'll see the same picture as in her book and I was at her place when the photographer was taking some of those pictures.

Sadly, the Amy of today is not the Amy I once knew.

Carolyn

[AdrianaG]

Carolyn,
I can find plenty of pictures of pear-shaped Cuore Di Bue Abruzzese with narrow necks and wide hips...yes, there are other Italian Cuor Di Bue which are smooth heart shaped but as best I can tell from pretty extensive googling, the Abruzzese are large, pleated pear-shaped.

(FYI my photo got distorted, stretched horizontally and the Goldman's look bigger at the neck than they are.

Would Amy have known it was an F1 by growing out seeds and seeing the variability in the resulting plants?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by AdrianaG

Carolyn,
I can find plenty of pictures of pear-shaped Cuore Di Bue Abruzzese with narrow necks and wide hips...yes, there are other Italian Cuor Di Bue which are smooth heart shaped but as best I can tell from pretty extensive googling, the Abruzzese are large, pleated pear-shaped.

(FYI my photo got distorted, stretched horizontally and the Goldman's look bigger at the neck than they are.

Would Amy have known it was an F1 by growing out seeds and seeing the variability in the resulting plants?

I can't speak to the Abruzzese ones, just no time to do research on them.

Amy had relatives in Italy from her father's side and told me about them and I think she even visited at one time.

She did know some Italian from her father so I think it's possible she knew what she got from the roadside stand was an F1 and I still think her motivation for dehybridizing it was to be able to SSE list it.

And yes, saved F2 seeds from an F1 fruit will give fruits of varying sizes and shapes. What I don't know is if she made selections from those F2 plants, then saved F3 seed, etc., to take at least one selection out to genetic stability.

But given the pictures at Tania's site and the GoogleIMAGE pictures IMO it was not genetically stable when she SSE listed it.

Amy did not know much tomato genetics at all when I knew her so well, and I can't see that changing for she never participated at any message sites such as this one either.

Lastly, I had listed what Roberta sent me and one was Chili and I found the real name for it when I was looking in my data book for something else.

It's Chilo della Garfagnana which is a beefsteak.

Carolyn

[Worth1]

Maybe one of the pictures on Tanias site is just a seed mix up.
We may never know.

Worth

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Maybe one of the pictures on Tanias site is just a seed mix up.
We may never know.

Worth

Always a possibility Worth but I don't think so when you looked at my link to Google IMAGES where each picture is from a different source and the same variability is seen.

Carolyn

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Always a possibility Worth but I don't think so when you looked at my link to Google IMAGES where each picture is from a different source and the same variability is seen.

Carolyn

So true, some of them look just like Zapotec.

Worth

[Sun City Linda]

I grew it 3 or 4 years ago when Bakers Creek offered it and had bomb shaped fruit. Never grew it again and when I contacted Bakers trying to get the real deal, they said they were no longer offering it as they could not get more seed. They offered me a credit for the seed I had purchased.

[yardn_gardn]

This is a picture of how my Goldman's Italian American are doing. I'm sorry for all the controversy, but the plants seem to be fine. We haven't eaten any yet so I can't comment on flavor!

[AdrianaG]

I had my first one this week. Used it in an orzo, tomato, basil salad. It was OK, but nothing to write home about, but I'm pretty sure it mine over-ripe. The texture was nice for this type of salad. I'm curious how they taste at the proper stage of ripeness and also for sauces. I have lots more fruits in the queue to test.