What to do now?

Old chef · September 22, 2014

My tomato plants are done and need I space for transplanting perennials till spring.

My question is: do I cut the plants and leave the roots in the soil? I have read that with the beans it is for nitrogen fixing. Is there any benefit from leaving the roots?

Thank you
Old chef

Labradors2 · September 22, 2014

I pull out my tomatoes and remove any remnants of tomatoes (leaves, old tommies, roots, everything) just in case there was some disease on them that I didn't notice.

I leave the bean roots in though, just cutting the stems at soil level.

Linda

Redbaron · September 22, 2014

I just Mow. And for that very reason, to leave the roots to decay in place and feed the soil foodweb of microbiology. But I am quite sure I am in the minority here. For years I read to pull and burn or thermal compost to prevent disease spread.

**carolyn137** · September 22, 2014

I think it depends where a peson gardens as to which diseases to worry about.

Where I am there are few systemic diseases that would still be in the roots, but for others they do have systemic diseases and if I were one of them I'd get thewhole plants out of there, would never try to compost them but would bag them up and dispose of them otherwise.

About N fixing bacteria.

Each year for several years I'd buy separate bean and pea inoculants, then one year decided to do some controls and saw no difference with treated vs non treated peas and beans.

Then I read a link somewhere that said most soils already have N fixing bacteria so no inoclulants are needed, so I stopped doing that ASAP.

I know those inoculants are sold everywhere but I suggest folks do what I did and they may find out they don't need them at all.

Carolyn

kayrobbins · September 22, 2014

I agree it really does depend on where you live. With Florida's high heat and humidity diseases are a problem I pull out all tomato roots and I never compost any parts of tomato plants.

I have had the exact same results with peas and beans. I never use incoculants and and have had no problems.

Salsacharley · September 22, 2014

If you pull your roots out you can inspect them for nematodes.

Old chef · September 23, 2014

[QUOTE=carolyn137;432724]I think it depends where a peson gardens as to which diseases to worry about.

Where I am there are few systemic diseases that would still be in the roots, but for others they do have systemic diseases and if I were one of them I'd get thewhole plants out of there, would never try to compost them but would bag them up and dispose

I don't have any systemic diseases. Just good old fungus. I'll leave the roots in one bed. Let the worms play.

Thank you
Old chef

bower · September 23, 2014

It's my understanding that the common fungal diseases can overwinter on plant parts - I've seen mold on cut tomato stumps left aboveground. So I pull the main stem and root for the compost, shake off the dirt, and use my fork to dig the smaller roots in for the worms. Those little roots are turned into worm castings in no time.

Old chef · September 23, 2014

Seems that it all has to come out. That fungus definitely overwinters. (Carolyn- I certainly agree with you about Potato leaves and disease tolerance )
Ill give the worms the little smaller roots- thanks Bower

Old Chef

PaulF · September 23, 2014

For no good reason other than the stems and roots are too big to break down much and cause problems during spring tilling do mine all get pulled in the fall.

AlittleSalt · September 23, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulF

For no good reason other than the stems and roots are too big to break down much and cause problems during spring tilling do mine all get pulled in the fall.

I am in agreement with Paul. The root system is meant not to break down while they are underground.

Something alike this is my experiences with breaking down oak leaves. In a plain simple pile, oak leaves can take a couple years to break down. When you mix them into soil without matting the leaves all together - they decompose in two months... so far as not finding an oak leaf at all when dug up.

The way I see it is that plant parts exposed to above ground elements are meant to endure those elements. The same goes with below ground parts of the plant - they are meant to endure below ground conditions.

Those are just my findings, and I could be wrong?

bower · September 24, 2014

I've noticed that the big stems take a long time to break down in the compost. I reckon they are a low Nitrogen part of the plant - the "browns" - and that they need to be well chopped and surrounded by high Nitrogen materials to decompose more quickly. If they're not well buried, they just dry out and remain unrotted. Moisture is really important for that process. I also noticed that when I let my container soils dry out in the winter, even the little roots didn't get consumed.

A couple more of my plants have sadly passed beyond the 'hanging in there' stage, so I must cut me some up today, to add to the giant bed of composting tomato plants. Boy they sure generate some biomass!

Hoping to get a good load of kelp soon, to speed em along.

AKmark · September 24, 2014

This season I reused about 50 ten gallon containers, with roots just smashed up, and stirred up a bit. I usually am paranoid about disease and use new dirt every year, but I saw no difference. If I pull a diseased plant out, then I would not use that dirt.
I am going to do it again next year, and reuse some dirt for a third season. I guess they could either keep producing healthy plants, grow a little and die, or mutate, from the soil toxins, into man eating tomatoes plants, or something else awful , who knows, but I will find out.
Anyway, if the plants seem healthy, the roots left in the ground should be healthy.
In my old greenhouse I had raised beds, I would dig out holes every year for new plants, and would add in manure, etc. I think I wasted a lot of time, but that worked for 20 consecutive years too.
I would try a couple of different ways, in a couple of seasons you will have your answer.

September 22, 2014	#1
Old chef Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Long island Posts: 456	What to do now? My tomato plants are done and need I space for transplanting perennials till spring. My question is: do I cut the plants and leave the roots in the soil? I have read that with the beans it is for nitrogen fixing. Is there any benefit from leaving the roots? Thank you Old chef

September 22, 2014	#3
Redbaron Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,488	I just Mow. And for that very reason, to leave the roots to decay in place and feed the soil foodweb of microbiology. But I am quite sure I am in the minority here. For years I read to pull and burn or thermal compost to prevent disease spread. __________________ Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture

September 22, 2014	#4
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I think it depends where a peson gardens as to which diseases to worry about. Where I am there are few systemic diseases that would still be in the roots, but for others they do have systemic diseases and if I were one of them I'd get thewhole plants out of there, would never try to compost them but would bag them up and dispose of them otherwise. About N fixing bacteria. Each year for several years I'd buy separate bean and pea inoculants, then one year decided to do some controls and saw no difference with treated vs non treated peas and beans. Then I read a link somewhere that said most soils already have N fixing bacteria so no inoclulants are needed, so I stopped doing that ASAP. I know those inoculants are sold everywhere but I suggest folks do what I did and they may find out they don't need them at all. Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

September 23, 2014	#10
PaulF Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brownville, Ne Posts: 3,282	For no good reason other than the stems and roots are too big to break down much and cause problems during spring tilling do mine all get pulled in the fall. __________________ there's two things money can't buy; true love and home grown tomatoes.

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September 22, 2014	#2
Labradors2 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,886	I pull out my tomatoes and remove any remnants of tomatoes (leaves, old tommies, roots, everything) just in case there was some disease on them that I didn't notice. I leave the bean roots in though, just cutting the stems at soil level. Linda

September 22, 2014	#5
kayrobbins Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Jacksonville, Fl Posts: 820	I agree it really does depend on where you live. With Florida's high heat and humidity diseases are a problem I pull out all tomato roots and I never compost any parts of tomato plants. I have had the exact same results with peas and beans. I never use incoculants and and have had no problems.

September 22, 2014	#6
Salsacharley Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,052	If you pull your roots out you can inspect them for nematodes.

September 23, 2014	#8
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,793	It's my understanding that the common fungal diseases can overwinter on plant parts - I've seen mold on cut tomato stumps left aboveground. So I pull the main stem and root for the compost, shake off the dirt, and use my fork to dig the smaller roots in for the worms. Those little roots are turned into worm castings in no time.

September 24, 2014	#12
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,793	I've noticed that the big stems take a long time to break down in the compost. I reckon they are a low Nitrogen part of the plant - the "browns" - and that they need to be well chopped and surrounded by high Nitrogen materials to decompose more quickly. If they're not well buried, they just dry out and remain unrotted. Moisture is really important for that process. I also noticed that when I let my container soils dry out in the winter, even the little roots didn't get consumed. A couple more of my plants have sadly passed beyond the 'hanging in there' stage, so I must cut me some up today, to add to the giant bed of composting tomato plants. Boy they sure generate some biomass! Hoping to get a good load of kelp soon, to speed em along.

September 24, 2014	#13
AKmark Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wasilla Alaska Posts: 2,010	This season I reused about 50 ten gallon containers, with roots just smashed up, and stirred up a bit. I usually am paranoid about disease and use new dirt every year, but I saw no difference. If I pull a diseased plant out, then I would not use that dirt. I am going to do it again next year, and reuse some dirt for a third season. I guess they could either keep producing healthy plants, grow a little and die, or mutate, from the soil toxins, into man eating tomatoes plants, or something else awful , who knows, but I will find out. Anyway, if the plants seem healthy, the roots left in the ground should be healthy. In my old greenhouse I had raised beds, I would dig out holes every year for new plants, and would add in manure, etc. I think I wasted a lot of time, but that worked for 20 consecutive years too. I would try a couple of different ways, in a couple of seasons you will have your answer.