ideas for preparing beds for next season

[amideutch]

I have been working on growing tomatoes for several years and trying various well thought out processes. I am cognizant of most things about growing tomatoes and find the lack of photographs sadly lacking in this fellows presentation. Most of the internet babble about the methods is pure hype of which I don't accept without strong evidence. Words are cheap and easy to produce and there is too much of this type of nonsense presented in garden forums. Everybody has a camera and successive photographs could be presented as real evidence of the process.

Have you read the BOOK? Evidently not as the book does have pictures and detailed information concerning his methods and the use of Kudzu. BTW, do you have or have used Kudzu at your location?

Scott brought up the use of Kudzu and this is one of the ingredients that Mr. Wilber attributes his success to. Here at TVille we share information and put it out for people to see and use if they so desire. Not to critique unless you have actually done so which in your case I kind of doubt it. The information presented may not be for everyone but some may find it useful. And some methods may not be applicable to ones growing location but is to other locations!

Ami

[ScottinAtlanta]

Folks, I have never advocated actually growing kudzu for compost. I did start using wild kudzu based on the ideas of Mr. Wilbur, which made sense to me since kudzu is a legume and fixes nitrogen. Kudzu is easily available to me in the wild - no need to plant new vines.

My experience is that kudzu greatly speeds up the composting cycle, and allows me to make more compost each season. The impact of that compost on tomatoes versus other composts is not something I can comment on yet, although I might try to get a soil test on the kudzu compost just to get a sense of what is in it. If I do, I will post the results here.

I do like the idea of cycling something that is reviled and harmful into something that is useful.

[Durgan]

http://www.newswise.com/articles/vie...whr;xy=5047780

Kudzu, you have a plant that is generating NOx from the soil and emitting VOC’s from its leaves—it’s like a living tailpipe.

Volatile organic compounds (VOC’s),

[Durgan]

Originally Posted by amideutch

Have you read the BOOK? Evidently not as the book does have pictures and detailed information concerning his methods and the use of Kudzu. BTW, do you have or have used Kudzu at your location?

Scott brought up the use of Kudzu and this is one of the ingredients that Mr. Wilber attributes his success to. Here at TVille we share information and put it out for people to see and use if they so desire. Not to critique unless you have actually done so which in your case I kind of doubt it. The information presented may not be for everyone but some may find it useful. And some methods may not be applicable to ones growing location but is to other locations!

Ami

No I haven't read the book and don't ever intend to. All the pseudo science about growing tomatoes is well documented, which is mostly presented sort of like witchcraft.

All variables being equal the one major parameter is Sun and temperature. All the hocus pocus soil recipes, support, pruning, planting has little bearing on production if the temperature and Sun is deficient.

The root area of a tomato plant is almost identical to the potato, other than those secret vertical ones grown by the Seattle Times. You know 400 pounds in a car tire. This indicates that it is relatively easy to saturate the root area with the necessary nutrients without growing some invasive plant to fix nitrogen. A sprinkling of Urea would suffice. But to each his own, as long as they pray in the security of there own home, and don't scare the horses.

[ScottinAtlanta]

No one on this forum has ever advocated growing an invasive plant. How did that get started?

What I do advocate is harvesting and using a plant that has already invaded and causing a good deal of damage. I found the article posted by Durgan fascinating - it is a good argument for my position that we should find uses that promote the harvesting of kudzu for some useful purpose. I have found others in Atlanta interested in making kudzu hay for composters on a commercial basis - wouldn't it be great to clean up kudzu areas and generate jobs at the same time?

[pdxwindjammer]

I am sorry to be the one to say this but Durgan, you have an interesting way about you that isn't exactly friendly. Actually, your tone is mostly condescending. This is a forum that is full of a wealth of information that some may find useful and others may not. There is absolutely no need for you to be so critical of people who post info you don't agree with. If you don't find it useful/interesting/factful, just mind your own business rather than being condescending. That tone is not welcome here.

Scott has said multiple times that he harvests the kudzu from the wild. Not sure how many more times he has to say that before you get that through your head.

[nnjjohn]

Originally Posted by amideutch

If you have any horse stables or farms in the area see if you can get two or 3 bags of horse droppings and put on your bed. Do NOT dig it in but let is decompose over the winter. In the spring cover the bed with compost and that is it. When you plant out make sure you use myco's and beneficial bacteria and fungi. Do this every year and your beds PH will go down and your beds will be teaming with worms.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...ight=surrogate

thank you for the tips.. I will do as you said.. did not till any or even rake it out ,, just dumped 5 gallon buckets in rows middle of bed.. topping that with mulched leaves as they continue to fall. Anyone ever use these?
BestDealUSA 3in1 Plant Flowers Soil Tester Moisture Light PH Meter I hope to check ph to see if it does drop by spring.

[sdzejachok]

Sounds like you've make great use of it.

[drew51]

NNJJOHN

If you need to drop the PH add elemental sulfur. It takes 6 months to work, maybe longer. I grow blueberries and need a ph of 4.8 or so. The only way to do it is with sulfur. Fertilize with cottonseed meal, that will also lower PH. This will work ton's better than compost.
Hollytone can also be used.
If in the ground, it's hard to control, you'll have to do it every year. I use raised beds to control soil conditions better. What is the best PH for tomatoes? (I'm fairly new to growing them). Be light on the sulfur, follow directions.
You could also use rainwater if possible. Tap water adds ton's of bicarbs and/or carbonates to soil that raises PH. When I use tap for my blueberries I lower PH with sulfuric acid. I'm a lab tech, so I have experience handling dangerous substances. Battery acid bought at auto places is OK to use. You only need a small amount, a few drops. Depends on your water. Mine has a PH of 7.8. I drop it to 6.0. Many universities suggest to greenhouses to use battery acid, it is safe to use, it's not dangerous and does not contain contaminants. Well it can be dangerous to handle, but is not harmful to use on food crops. Any garden center has sulfur.

[Vespertino]

I have some large areas in my yard I'm not going to have time to garden in this year, but I have a feeling it's very poor soil- it's a typical dead-looking patch of turf in a subdivision. Nothing has been done to it. I'm thinking of sheet mulching it over the winter to kill the turf, and plant green manure over the spring, summer and fall to improve it over the course of the year. I'm currently torn between growing buckwheat or hairy vetch over those areas. Does any one happen to know which is a better as a green manure crop for Texas? With luck I hope to use those areas for plants and tomatoes in 2015.

[nnjjohn]

yes, I will certainly spike in my new ph test meters before adding anything should the high ph still be a concern before planting. I remember reading here that white vinegar can help lower ph too.

[drew51]

Originally Posted by nnjjohn

yes, I will certainly spike in my new ph test meters before adding anything should the high ph still be a concern before planting. I remember reading here that white vinegar can help lower ph too.

White vinegar can lower PH but bacteria soon release the carbonates again, it's only temporary. You need sulfur, or sulfuric acid to permanently change PH.

[nnjjohn]

Originally Posted by drew51

White vinegar can lower PH but bacteria soon release the carbonates again, it's only temporary. You need sulfur, or sulfuric acid to permanently change PH.

yes, i will certainly use sulfur acidifier and the recommended dosage should my beds still test too high, I think i'll know soon after the snow pack melts. I have these test ph probes that are new and never used.. i will take a closeup picture of the probe meter reading in the beds and post them here soon.

[drew51]

Good luck seems like you have a handle on everything, but that Murphy guy is sneaky! He can take his laws and put them where the sun don't shine!

[nnjjohn]

Hello on this sub zero record freezing Monday from Northern New Jersey.. This past weekend I filleted a few panfish from an icefishing trip .. the carcasses are in a bucket frozen outside. When milder weather returns I want to dig them in.. i was wondering if just a few chops and burying them just under the bed a few inches is all that is required. I do not have a grinder so just going to spread them a bit apart and chopping them up to try and evenly spread the carcasses .. I been thinking it is, the microbes that should do the rest by the time planting season begins? How long do these microbes and worms need to and breakdown and do their thing?