I need suggestions

JerryL · January 21, 2013

I’ve started building my greenhouse (finally). Due to the contour of my property I no choice but to build on a hill. I have “planted” posts to support the downhill side. The highest point off the ground is 33 inches. I planned to install 2” x 10" boards to enclose the space then fill it with whatever solid material I can find.

My question of the T’Ville club is – Do you have any other suggestions for filling the void under the greenhouse? Starting over on flat ground is not an option. J

The first photo is a sample of the finished product, while the second is what I have so far.

P.S. The over all size is 10 X 16

habitat_gardener · January 21, 2013

Out here on the left coast, we have urbanite. It's chunks of concrete from sidewalks or driveways that have been removed. Instead of going to the landfill, the urbanite is repurposed into low walls, raised-bed borders, etc. They have one flat side, so you could stack 2 layers (flat sides together), or break them into smaller chunks and do your best at filling the space efficiently.

I wonder if used drywall would stay in place. I've seen it offered free on craigslist.

Doug9345 · January 21, 2013

I see firewood in the background so Google cordwood masonry.

Redbaron · January 21, 2013

I would have dug into the ground 1/2 way and used the soil from the dug out part to fill in the gap. Then just put a water proof barrier on the part of the greenhouse that ends up below grade. Unless of course the North to South orientation of the greenhouse makes that impossible.

amideutch · January 21, 2013

Why didn't you have somebody with a backhoe come in and dig out the upside of the hill 33" down and level it out for your foundation and insulate it if you so desire. Ami

Barbee · January 21, 2013

I'd go with gravel.

kurt · January 21, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by amideutch

Why didn't you have somebody with a backhoe come in and dig out the upside of the hill 33" down and level it out for your foundation and insulate it if you so desire. Ami

Level ground(with a three ft. footprint around size of structure) compact well,4 inch regular slab concrete pad,or new fiberglass infused 6 inch slab(no rebar needed).The amount of lumber cost,fill labor would probly equal the cost of crete.No lumber rot in time,no fungas,bacteria,spores etc in lumber over time.Stable,hose out each season.

JerryL · January 21, 2013

Scott, Ami

I thought about digging out the front but I’m already going downhill to what will be the front door. If I had dug out the hill I’d have to have steps going down to the entrance.

Redbaron · January 21, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryL

Scott, Ami

I thought about digging out the front but I’m already going downhill to what will be the front door. If I had dug out the hill I’d have to have steps going down to the entrance.

That's what I was worried about. Well I am going with Barbee then. Just anchor it well first because it is likely to slump over time. (pilings should work)Then you could put a nice and decorative stone or brick wall to hold in the gravel. (and tie the wall in to the pilings)

You could slab it too like Kurt says. But I see the problem. Your door will be below grade if you back hoe it out. So you really need a solution that is somewhat elevated in the back to be at grade in the front.

There is another possibility though. Dig it out and build a root cellar (door in the back) Then on top of the cellar put the greenhouse. Use the walls and ceiling of the root cellar as the foundation and floor of the greenhouse. LOTS more work though. Not cheap or easy.

But has the advantage of usable space for storage of food and/or gardening supplies.

Hotwired · January 21, 2013

You had a similar dilemma to myself in that all my property is a side hill. I did something similar except I had 8" of drop from front to back. My doorway was on the high side. I built a frame on posts out of pressure treated lumber. I used floor joists and 3/4" pressure treated plywood floor http://imageshack.us/a/img62/4582/gh10.jpg . Before I started I ran water lines underground as well as drain lines. We're in snow country and it's been under 20F for 5 days now, so I lined the outside with 2" thick styrofoam rigid insulation. I did the same thing for the floor. I had drains installed in six places in the floor, so I have running water all winter.

Based on your design the greenhouse should be pretty well insulated, so I would definitely think about an insulated floor or a least an insulated wall from the Floor beams to the ground. The rigid foam is pretty cheap. Here's some Greenhouse book that are free to download http://www.hotwiredgardens.com/pdf/F...ouse_Books.pdf .

Hotwired NY 5b
http://www.hotwiredgardens.com/pdfs.html

Worth1 · January 21, 2013

STOP!!!!!!!!!!

How far are the 4x4's in the ground?

Before you get any farther remove the 4x4's on the 16 inch side and evenly add 2 in the middle of each side, total of 4.
make these at 5.5 foot centers.

Next add one more 4x4 on each end in the middle 5 foot centers.

Make sure they are at least 2 feet in the ground.
Concrete them in.

Next DO NOT use round gravel have a yard or two (what ever you need) of crushed lime stone or what ever rock you have hauled in and put it in the hole.
You can use bigger stone first and then dime sized stone on top.

Build things for the long haul.
The round gravel stuff will drive you crazy moving around under your feet.
The crushed stuff will settle and stay put, and it will drain.

The reason for the extra 4x4's is if not close together they will bow out on you.
10 feet and 8 feet are way too far apart.

Later as time or money permits you can dig a footing around the whole thing and put stone siding around the place.
When and if you get to that point I will help you.

Build things for the long haul.

Worth

Barbee · January 22, 2013

I should probably note that we use crusher run on projects like this. It packs down and is used as the base for most of our concrete barn floors.

JerryL · January 22, 2013

Thanks for the input folks.

I was running a few errands today. Some of which took me on some back roads. I saw several building sites with piles of fill just waiting for me. Once I have the opening boarded up I think I’ll stop at a few of those sites and see if I can talk them out of some for the majority of the needed fill. Then some crusher run on top to support my pavers.

Cole_Robbie · January 28, 2013

Worth is right about those 4x4s sagging. Another option might be to pour in a concrete slab that fills the space up to the bottom of the 4x4s. Then they would rest on the slab. Typical exterior house walls are only 2x4s at the bottom; the concrete slab is what supports them.

Don't forget to plumb in a floor drain before you pour the slab. You also will have to re-direct the rain water runoff if you are not on the top of the hill.

January 21, 2013	#4
Redbaron Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,488	I would have dug into the ground 1/2 way and used the soil from the dug out part to fill in the gap. Then just put a water proof barrier on the part of the greenhouse that ends up below grade. Unless of course the North to South orientation of the greenhouse makes that impossible. __________________ Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture

January 21, 2013	#5
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Why didn't you have somebody with a backhoe come in and dig out the upside of the hill 33" down and level it out for your foundation and insulate it if you so desire. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

January 21, 2013	#6
Barbee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 1,818	I'd go with gravel. __________________ *Barbee*

January 21, 2013	#8
JerryL Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: S.W. Ohio z6a Posts: 736	Scott, Ami I thought about digging out the front but I’m already going downhill to what will be the front door. If I had dug out the hill I’d have to have steps going down to the entrance. __________________ Jerry

January 21, 2013	#10
Hotwired Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ithaca, NY - USDA 5b Posts: 241	You had a similar dilemma to myself in that all my property is a side hill. I did something similar except I had 8" of drop from front to back. My doorway was on the high side. I built a frame on posts out of pressure treated lumber. I used floor joists and 3/4" pressure treated plywood floor http://imageshack.us/a/img62/4582/gh10.jpg . Before I started I ran water lines underground as well as drain lines. We're in snow country and it's been under 20F for 5 days now, so I lined the outside with 2" thick styrofoam rigid insulation. I did the same thing for the floor. I had drains installed in six places in the floor, so I have running water all winter. Based on your design the greenhouse should be pretty well insulated, so I would definitely think about an insulated floor or a least an insulated wall from the Floor beams to the ground. The rigid foam is pretty cheap. Here's some Greenhouse book that are free to download http://www.hotwiredgardens.com/pdf/F...ouse_Books.pdf . Hotwired NY 5b http://www.hotwiredgardens.com/pdfs.html __________________ Give a man a fish and he eats for a day - Teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

January 21, 2013	#2
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,540	Out here on the left coast, we have urbanite. It's chunks of concrete from sidewalks or driveways that have been removed. Instead of going to the landfill, the urbanite is repurposed into low walls, raised-bed borders, etc. They have one flat side, so you could stack 2 layers (flat sides together), or break them into smaller chunks and do your best at filling the space efficiently. I wonder if used drywall would stay in place. I've seen it offered free on craigslist.

January 21, 2013	#3
Doug9345 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Durhamville,NY Posts: 2,706	I see firewood in the background so Google cordwood masonry.

January 21, 2013	#11
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	STOP!!!!!!!!!! How far are the 4x4's in the ground? Before you get any farther remove the 4x4's on the 16 inch side and evenly add 2 in the middle of each side, total of 4. make these at 5.5 foot centers. Next add one more 4x4 on each end in the middle 5 foot centers. Make sure they are at least 2 feet in the ground. Concrete them in. Next DO NOT use round gravel have a yard or two (what ever you need) of crushed lime stone or what ever rock you have hauled in and put it in the hole. You can use bigger stone first and then dime sized stone on top. Build things for the long haul. The round gravel stuff will drive you crazy moving around under your feet. The crushed stuff will settle and stay put, and it will drain. The reason for the extra 4x4's is if not close together they will bow out on you. 10 feet and 8 feet are way too far apart. Later as time or money permits you can dig a footing around the whole thing and put stone siding around the place. When and if you get to that point I will help you. Build things for the long haul. Worth Last edited by Worth1; January 21, 2013 at 07:29 PM.

January 22, 2013	#12
Barbee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 1,818	I should probably note that we use crusher run on projects like this. It packs down and is used as the base for most of our concrete barn floors. __________________ *Barbee*

January 28, 2013	#14
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Worth is right about those 4x4s sagging. Another option might be to pour in a concrete slab that fills the space up to the bottom of the 4x4s. Then they would rest on the slab. Typical exterior house walls are only 2x4s at the bottom; the concrete slab is what supports them. Don't forget to plumb in a floor drain before you pour the slab. You also will have to re-direct the rain water runoff if you are not on the top of the hill.