J&L Gardens

jamiegrows · May 13, 2011

I was looking for the tomato seed Kazachka and I found it being sold by j&l gardens. My problem is they list this as the description for Lee's sweet on their Bonanza.com store:

"Lee's Sweet is a boat-shaped to heart-shaped pink tomato out of Brandywind (Suddeths) with dense, solid flesh and a spicy flavor which outdoes its parent. The 12 oz iridescent pink fruit is striped with faint green and is borne on a stout potato-leafed plant. In our trials, it has been remarkably productive and healthy. Most importantly, people ask for it by name, so we know we have a winner. Try it in your garden this summer. Six foot plant, 70-75 days to maturity from transplant. 30 seeds per packet sent 1st class mail in a padded envelope with instructions for starting!"

And this for the description of Lee's sweet here at TV:

Question by Barbee:
"Great photos and everything is easy to find. Lee's Sweet look delicious. Can you describe it?"

Answer by Goodwin:
"hi - Lee's is actually not an heirloom tomato. I crossed Pittsburg Potato Top and Chianti Rose and the second year I got one plant with heart-shaped fruit rather than beefsteak. This year I set out three which bred true and production was good. I was pulling 6-8 a week off each plant during most of the season until the freeze shut them down. It is a big plant and midseason, about 75-78 days. Thanks for the nice review!"

So now I am skeptical of their products. Does anyone have any info or experience dealing with them?

**carolyn137** · May 13, 2011

I'd never heard of them before so took a look at the website and it's clear to me, at least, that they have gotten some of their seed here at Tville through my free seed offer as well as from some others here at Tville.

They represented Lee's Sweet one way and Lee Goodwin who posts here clearly said what the parentage was and no Brandywine was involved as they had said.

Kazachka is a variety that I've been offering here in my annual free seed offer for the past couple of years.

Ambrosia I know only as an OP Sungold variety developed by Lee Goodwin which I'm growing this year and didn't know there was a Pink Ambrosia. Perhaps Lee could speak to that.

Green Doctors Frosted I've been offering here in my free seed offer.

Somehow I missed how many seeds were sent for $3 so if someone finds that how about saying what the seed count is.

There are supposed to be many hard to get tomato varieties, and maybe for most folks some of them are, but for me and many others I don't see much that's unique except for the ones they say they bred.

It's strictly your choice where you want to buy tomato seeds and there are many excellents places to do so. Since I don't know others here who have bought seeds from J and L I don't what the experience of others has been.

All I can say, I think, is that the owners are participants here at Tville from some of the comments made and comments about where they got some of their seed.

I could comment on some of the other tomato varieties they list, but I'm not going to do that right now.

heirloomdaddy · May 13, 2011

While I haven't purchased from J&L Gardens, I do have some experience dealing with Lee and am growing three of his tomatoes this season.

What I can say, is that Lee is a great dude, and that his Ambrosia, GDF, and Lee's Sweet are awesomely healthy and setting tons of fruit. Lee's sweet is seriously early for a large PL.

Lee's sweet is out-pacing all of the other PL's in its bed, and Ambrosia is by far my most productive and impressive plant in my garden of about 40 plants. If Ambrosia tastes half as good as sungold, we've got a SERIOUS winner.

Lee is a good dude and I vouch for him without hesitation.

**carolyn137** · May 13, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by heirloomdaddy

While I haven't purchased from J&L Gardens, I do have some experience dealing with Lee and am growing three of his tomatoes this season.

What I can say, is that Lee is a great dude, and that his Ambrosia, GDF, and Lee's Sweet are awesomely healthy and setting tons of fruit. Lee's sweet is seriously early for a large PL.

Lee's sweet is out-pacing all of the other PL's in its bed, and Ambrosia is by far my most productive and impressive plant in my garden of about 40 plants. If Ambrosia tastes half as good as sungold, we've got a SERIOUS winner.

Lee is a good dude and I vouch for him without hesitation.

I agree that Lee is a great guy but the issue as I see it is that J and L said one thing about Lee's Sweet and as cut and pasted by the original post Lee said that Brandywine wasn't part of the parentage.

And I'll be growing Ambrosia this summer but was wondering if that's one of Lee's as well or was the result of some deliberate crossing or a natural cross.

jamiegrows · May 15, 2011

Hi,

I also found this post here at TV

Goodwin: "Here is OSU from my garden last summer. The fruit is a little better than 2 inches in diameter, and the plants produced well through the season. The flavor was very good - full and slightly sharp."

And this if from J & L Gardens Bonanza.com store:

"Here at the farm, we've crossed a selected strain of the rare blue stock to Amy's Sugar Gem, one of our favorite tomatoes to take to market in Los Alamos and Santa Fe. The result is a vigorous plant which bears wonderful salad tomatoes with the lustrous dark purple of the original and its important antioxidant properties. The skin of this tomato contains as much anthocyanin as a blueberry. The color is darkest when the temperatures are cooler and the fruit is not shaded. Because the color shows up in the young foliage, you can continue to improve the stock by selecting the darkest of your seedings to plant out. This is really an adventure in gardening and we would welcome hearing about your success. We will send at least 20 seeds per packet so you can share with your family and friends."

The problem is they both use the same picture.
So for now I will be looking for Kazachka seeds elsewhere

**carolyn137** · May 15, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiegrows

Hi,

I also found this post here at TV

Goodwin: "Here is OSU from my garden last summer. The fruit is a little better than 2 inches in diameter, and the plants produced well through the season. The flavor was very good - full and slightly sharp."

And this if from J & L Gardens Bonanza.com store:

"Here at the farm, we've crossed a selected strain of the rare blue stock to Amy's Sugar Gem, one of our favorite tomatoes to take to market in Los Alamos and Santa Fe. The result is a vigorous plant which bears wonderful salad tomatoes with the lustrous dark purple of the original and its important antioxidant properties. The skin of this tomato contains as much anthocyanin as a blueberry. The color is darkest when the temperatures are cooler and the fruit is not shaded. Because the color shows up in the young foliage, you can continue to improve the stock by selecting the darkest of your seedings to plant out. This is really an adventure in gardening and we would welcome hearing about your success. We will send at least 20 seeds per packet so you can share with your family and friends."

The problem is they both use the same picture.
So for now I will be looking for Kazachka seeds elsewhere

I'm not sure what's going on. I'll PM Lee and ask him about it.

jamiegrows · May 15, 2011

Hi Carolyn,

Thank you

heirloomdaddy · May 16, 2011

I'm not sure what the problem is regarding Lee's Sweet....

Chianti Rose is said to be of Brandywine descent. So what is the harm in saying one place that the tomato is "out of brandywine" and then saying the specific parents? They are both correct.

I can tell you that the plant is drastically out-performing the other tomatoes in its bed, which are Omar's Lebanese, Boxcar Willie, Aunt Ginny's Purple, and KBX x GZ. It is pumping out huge flowers and heart shaped fruit like nobody's business. I'm positive that this one is a winner.

As far as Ambrosia is concerned, as I understand it, it was selected (now in F5 I believe) from a Sungold grow-out. It is more productive and earlier (for myself) than Sungold. I will be able to comment on flavor very soon, but can say that this plant is LOADED with huge clusters. Seems like every flower in every truss has birthed a tomato.

It also has the same signature smell to the foliage. Can't wait to taste it.

Not sure what's up with the blue tomato pics though. I would go ahead and order your seeds from Lee. He clearly knows tomatoes, and aside from a potential picture mix-up, there is no reason to distrust him.

jamiegrows · May 17, 2011

Howdy HD my L.A. neighbor,

I live in the SouthBay, a great place to grow tomatoes. Thank you for your input. Maybe Goodwin will drop in and let us know why he changed the description of Lee's sweet and used the same picture for two different varieties.

goodwin · May 17, 2011

hi people -

I had no idea anyone here had discovered my site. (thanks, Carolyn, for alerting me!) J&L must be the smallest seed company on the planet. As you may know, Jan and I grow for the local markets and I keep a number of varieties and have bred a few of my own. Each year I save seed from whatever grew well and was popular.

Lee's Sweet is a cross with the Chianti Rose I got from Solana. I also have some lines going from Sungold and those have segregated wildly. They all have the distinctive fragrance and are named Ambrosia.

The blue crosses and selected lines don't show the same amount of variation because I need small salad tomatoes for market and haven't been as adventurous as frogsleap and some others on the Crosstalk thread. I used an older photo I had which is representative, but obviously need to change it. The picture is accurate as far as size, color and plant go. All the photos of varieties on our farm web page and elsewhere are my own, except the elusive Chinese Red Noodle Bean.

Anyway, I'm sorry about any confusion. It is incredibly important that we provide clear information because the historical record is already muddied enough and there is no excuse for sloppiness.

If you visit our area, try and catch us at the farmers market in Santa Fe or Los Alamos. I'm also happy to send samples of anything I have to folks here at T'ville. There's a spreadsheet on the main farm page listing the varieties I have in stock and some brief notes on characteristics and culture.

This year I'm working on l. hirsutum crosses - chasing down some traits found in wild relatives of the tomato and growing some of Tom's potatoes from true seed. And I'm looking forward to the summer - only eight days in the semester left for this high school teacher!

Lee

swamper · July 13, 2011

Is kazachka determinate?

I'm grateful that Lee Goodwin is doing such great work and making seeds available to all. I bought a bunch of seeds from j&l and cant wait for the results.

The one wish i have is that he fixes his website so that descriptions of varieties that are sold out still show up

**carolyn137** · July 13, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamper

Is kazachka determinate?

I'm grateful that Lee Goodwin is doing such great work and making seeds available to all. I bought a bunch of seeds from j&l and cant wait for the results.

The one wish i have is that he fixes his website so that descriptions of varieties that are sold out still show up

Kazachka is indeterminate and seeds sent to me by Andrey is Belarus and I SSE list it and have also been offering it here at Tville in my annual free seed offer each year. I'm pretty sure that's where Lee got it from.

The interesting thing about it is that a seed can give you a plant with black cherries and another seed can give you a plant with wee mini-beefteaks.

Save seeds from the cherries and you still get plants with either cherries or mini beefs, and same with saving seeds from the beef ones. This surprised me a bit so I checked with Andrey and he got the same thing for he was growing it out at the same time that I was.

Darn good tasting black cherry IMO.

goodwin · July 14, 2011

hi

Thank you for the nice comment, and thank you, Carolyn, for sending me the original seed. Kazachka is indeterminant, but not a huge plant when I've grown it - more bushy. So far the fruit I have this year appears to be the larger, flattened type, but I've only picked ripe fruit from a couple of plants. I think Kazachka is a real keeper, even though it's been slower to bear this season.
It's been a strange year. The drought and the smoke from the wildfires have really stressed the plants, not to mention the farmers! Be sure to let me know how your plants do.
Anyway, I changed my farm site so a variety is not removed when it is sold out. Thanks for mentioning that.

Lee

goodwin · January 14, 2012

Well, it's a beautiful, sunny day here, but there isn't much to be done outside so I spent some time updating my site and adding new varieties. It is still the same web address, and seems to be working pretty well. Lee

RobinB · January 15, 2012

http://www.tomatoville.com/picture.p...&pictureid=225
http://www.tomatoville.com/picture.p...&pictureid=226
Last year, I ordered "Select Blue" from J&L Gardens. I had some questions, and they were answered promptly with kindness and courtesy. The seeds arrived promptly. Select Blue was a large, healthy plant that was very prolific! The tomatoes were a beautiful bright indigo blue and blushed red all over when ripe, and the vines were purple. They looked like bing cherries when ripe. The plant started producing in just under 60 days. The taste was fruity and sweet. I plan to grow these again in 2012. They also sent me a sample of Ambrosia Gold. It grew to be a compact indeterminate (3-4') with small 1/2" very dark orange tomatoes with a sweet taste. Production was not great. I probably won't grow this one again.

May 13, 2011	#1
jamiegrows Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 11	J&L Gardens I was looking for the tomato seed Kazachka and I found it being sold by j&l gardens. My problem is they list this as the description for Lee's sweet on their Bonanza.com store: "Lee's Sweet is a boat-shaped to heart-shaped pink tomato out of Brandywind (Suddeths) with dense, solid flesh and a spicy flavor which outdoes its parent. The 12 oz iridescent pink fruit is striped with faint green and is borne on a stout potato-leafed plant. In our trials, it has been remarkably productive and healthy. Most importantly, people ask for it by name, so we know we have a winner. Try it in your garden this summer. Six foot plant, 70-75 days to maturity from transplant. 30 seeds per packet sent 1st class mail in a padded envelope with instructions for starting!" And this for the description of Lee's sweet here at TV: Question by Barbee: "Great photos and everything is easy to find. Lee's Sweet look delicious. Can you describe it?" Answer by Goodwin: "hi - Lee's is actually not an heirloom tomato. I crossed Pittsburg Potato Top and Chianti Rose and the second year I got one plant with heart-shaped fruit rather than beefsteak. This year I set out three which bred true and production was good. I was pulling 6-8 a week off each plant during most of the season until the freeze shut them down. It is a big plant and midseason, about 75-78 days. Thanks for the nice review!" So now I am skeptical of their products. Does anyone have any info or experience dealing with them? Last edited by jamiegrows; May 15, 2011 at 09:27 PM. Reason: Corrected website from Bonanzle to Bonanza.com

May 13, 2011	#2
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I'd never heard of them before so took a look at the website and it's clear to me, at least, that they have gotten some of their seed here at Tville through my free seed offer as well as from some others here at Tville. They represented Lee's Sweet one way and Lee Goodwin who posts here clearly said what the parentage was and no Brandywine was involved as they had said. Kazachka is a variety that I've been offering here in my annual free seed offer for the past couple of years. Ambrosia I know only as an OP Sungold variety developed by Lee Goodwin which I'm growing this year and didn't know there was a Pink Ambrosia. Perhaps Lee could speak to that. Green Doctors Frosted I've been offering here in my free seed offer. Somehow I missed how many seeds were sent for $3 so if someone finds that how about saying what the seed count is. There are supposed to be many hard to get tomato varieties, and maybe for most folks some of them are, but for me and many others I don't see much that's unique except for the ones they say they bred. It's strictly your choice where you want to buy tomato seeds and there are many excellents places to do so. Since I don't know others here who have bought seeds from J and L I don't what the experience of others has been. All I can say, I think, is that the owners are participants here at Tville from some of the comments made and comments about where they got some of their seed. I could comment on some of the other tomato varieties they list, but I'm not going to do that right now. __________________ Carolyn

May 15, 2011	#5
jamiegrows Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 11	Hi, I also found this post here at TV Goodwin: "Here is OSU from my garden last summer. The fruit is a little better than 2 inches in diameter, and the plants produced well through the season. The flavor was very good - full and slightly sharp." And this if from J & L Gardens Bonanza.com store: "Here at the farm, we've crossed a selected strain of the rare blue stock to Amy's Sugar Gem, one of our favorite tomatoes to take to market in Los Alamos and Santa Fe. The result is a vigorous plant which bears wonderful salad tomatoes with the lustrous dark purple of the original and its important antioxidant properties. The skin of this tomato contains as much anthocyanin as a blueberry. The color is darkest when the temperatures are cooler and the fruit is not shaded. Because the color shows up in the young foliage, you can continue to improve the stock by selecting the darkest of your seedings to plant out. This is really an adventure in gardening and we would welcome hearing about your success. We will send at least 20 seeds per packet so you can share with your family and friends." The problem is they both use the same picture. So for now I will be looking for Kazachka seeds elsewhere __________________ Jamie Last edited by Suze; May 18, 2011 at 02:15 AM. Reason: formatting

May 15, 2011	#7
jamiegrows Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 11	Hi Carolyn, Thank you __________________ Jamie Last edited by jamiegrows; May 15, 2011 at 09:43 PM.

May 17, 2011	#9
jamiegrows Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 11	Howdy HD my L.A. neighbor, I live in the SouthBay, a great place to grow tomatoes. Thank you for your input. Maybe Goodwin will drop in and let us know why he changed the description of Lee's sweet and used the same picture for two different varieties. __________________ Jamie

May 13, 2011	#3
heirloomdaddy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Los Angeles Z10 Posts: 291	While I haven't purchased from J&L Gardens, I do have some experience dealing with Lee and am growing three of his tomatoes this season. What I can say, is that Lee is a great dude, and that his Ambrosia, GDF, and Lee's Sweet are awesomely healthy and setting tons of fruit. Lee's sweet is seriously early for a large PL. Lee's sweet is out-pacing all of the other PL's in its bed, and Ambrosia is by far my most productive and impressive plant in my garden of about 40 plants. If Ambrosia tastes half as good as sungold, we've got a SERIOUS winner. Lee is a good dude and I vouch for him without hesitation.

May 16, 2011	#8
heirloomdaddy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Los Angeles Z10 Posts: 291	I'm not sure what the problem is regarding Lee's Sweet.... Chianti Rose is said to be of Brandywine descent. So what is the harm in saying one place that the tomato is "out of brandywine" and then saying the specific parents? They are both correct. I can tell you that the plant is drastically out-performing the other tomatoes in its bed, which are Omar's Lebanese, Boxcar Willie, Aunt Ginny's Purple, and KBX x GZ. It is pumping out huge flowers and heart shaped fruit like nobody's business. I'm positive that this one is a winner. As far as Ambrosia is concerned, as I understand it, it was selected (now in F5 I believe) from a Sungold grow-out. It is more productive and earlier (for myself) than Sungold. I will be able to comment on flavor very soon, but can say that this plant is LOADED with huge clusters. Seems like every flower in every truss has birthed a tomato. It also has the same signature smell to the foliage. Can't wait to taste it. Not sure what's up with the blue tomato pics though. I would go ahead and order your seeds from Lee. He clearly knows tomatoes, and aside from a potential picture mix-up, there is no reason to distrust him.

May 17, 2011	#10
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 606	hi people - I had no idea anyone here had discovered my site. (thanks, Carolyn, for alerting me!) J&L must be the smallest seed company on the planet. As you may know, Jan and I grow for the local markets and I keep a number of varieties and have bred a few of my own. Each year I save seed from whatever grew well and was popular. Lee's Sweet is a cross with the Chianti Rose I got from Solana. I also have some lines going from Sungold and those have segregated wildly. They all have the distinctive fragrance and are named Ambrosia. The blue crosses and selected lines don't show the same amount of variation because I need small salad tomatoes for market and haven't been as adventurous as frogsleap and some others on the Crosstalk thread. I used an older photo I had which is representative, but obviously need to change it. The picture is accurate as far as size, color and plant go. All the photos of varieties on our farm web page and elsewhere are my own, except the elusive Chinese Red Noodle Bean. Anyway, I'm sorry about any confusion. It is incredibly important that we provide clear information because the historical record is already muddied enough and there is no excuse for sloppiness. If you visit our area, try and catch us at the farmers market in Santa Fe or Los Alamos. I'm also happy to send samples of anything I have to folks here at T'ville. There's a spreadsheet on the main farm page listing the varieties I have in stock and some brief notes on characteristics and culture. This year I'm working on l. hirsutum crosses - chasing down some traits found in wild relatives of the tomato and growing some of Tom's potatoes from true seed. And I'm looking forward to the summer - only eight days in the semester left for this high school teacher! Lee

July 13, 2011	#11
swamper Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2009 Location: CT Posts: 219	Is kazachka determinate? I'm grateful that Lee Goodwin is doing such great work and making seeds available to all. I bought a bunch of seeds from j&l and cant wait for the results. The one wish i have is that he fixes his website so that descriptions of varieties that are sold out still show up

July 14, 2011	#13
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 606	hi Thank you for the nice comment, and thank you, Carolyn, for sending me the original seed. Kazachka is indeterminant, but not a huge plant when I've grown it - more bushy. So far the fruit I have this year appears to be the larger, flattened type, but I've only picked ripe fruit from a couple of plants. I think Kazachka is a real keeper, even though it's been slower to bear this season. It's been a strange year. The drought and the smoke from the wildfires have really stressed the plants, not to mention the farmers! Be sure to let me know how your plants do. Anyway, I changed my farm site so a variety is not removed when it is sold out. Thanks for mentioning that. Lee

January 14, 2012	#14
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 606	Well, it's a beautiful, sunny day here, but there isn't much to be done outside so I spent some time updating my site and adding new varieties. It is still the same web address, and seems to be working pretty well. Lee

January 15, 2012	#15
RobinB Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Near Reno, NV Posts: 1,621	http://www.tomatoville.com/picture.p...&pictureid=225 http://www.tomatoville.com/picture.p...&pictureid=226 Last year, I ordered "Select Blue" from J&L Gardens. I had some questions, and they were answered promptly with kindness and courtesy. The seeds arrived promptly. Select Blue was a large, healthy plant that was very prolific! The tomatoes were a beautiful bright indigo blue and blushed red all over when ripe, and the vines were purple. They looked like bing cherries when ripe. The plant started producing in just under 60 days. The taste was fruity and sweet. I plan to grow these again in 2012. They also sent me a sample of Ambrosia Gold. It grew to be a compact indeterminate (3-4') with small 1/2" very dark orange tomatoes with a sweet taste. Production was not great. I probably won't grow this one again.