Book and Seed Vault

[flowerfarm]

Originally Posted by cdntomato

Anyone know this org and who is behind it? Those of you who know me will know why I am particularly interested/curious.

http://bookandseedvault.org/home.html

Thanks,
Jennifer

I'm Carole Johnson of Albany, Oregon and I am "behind" the BookandSeedVault.org

I'd be glad to talk with you on forum, by telephone: 541-928-5011 or direct email: cj@proaxis.com I look forward to our conversation.

[flowerfarm]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Italian Seed & Tool is the same company as Gourmet Seed. Mailorder Garden is site #3 (who might be the same folks.)

*****

And Harvest Moon fits in there somewhere as well, or used to.

I just got yet another catalog from Gourmet International yesterday, already had another one plus two Italian Tool ones and I plan to e-mail to correct a few item descriptions that bother me. I don't usually do that but so help me, when are folks going to recognize that Arkansas Traveler, for instance, was bred by the U of Arkansas and is not an heirloom variety.

And there are few other things as well.

Good thing, perhaps, that I don't have to buy much seed these days.

I wonder how much seed and money Carol Johnson is putting into her own personal vault these days.

I'm Carole Johnson and I'll answer your questions...I've put $4,500 of money in getting the BookandSeedVault.org set up with federal, state and Oregon Secretary of State paperwork.

I'm retired and live on Social Security. The concept of being prepared in the event of catastrophe is a 30 year passion of mine. Some of us would identify it as a "gut feeling," be readers of Edgar Cayce, in touch with AmerIndian lore or just plain think it's a good idea to have access to necessary tools, when necessary, without having to file everything in triplicate to pry it out of a government's hands.

The Norway Seed Vault is big money, big power and impossible to get to unless you have a north sea-worthy boat AND the ability to bore through the two five-foot-thick steel doors with an entrance between that is boobytrapped.
I understand that our politicians have proposed that America also have a seed vault--on the dark side of the moon. That should be handy when we need to get to it. Britain has a Millenium Seed Bank (their webpage is encyclopedic). If you're ever in need of when to harvest, how to harvest, how to store and when to plant exotic seeds--you will find the information at this site.
I've looked over all of your comments and find merit to nearly all of them. In another message I will respond fully. In the meantime, I welcome your critiques. The more brains; the better the product. Carole

[flowerfarm]

I was contacted by Thomas Wagner on February 5th regarding the conjectures about the BookandSeedVault. My email response to him follows:
1. Carole Johnson is not a board member as she specifically asked not to be one. Her impetus was that her passion might/would railroad the board into making decisions based on her opinions. The story behind the story: I am the former CEO of three corporations. I have started three businesses of my own. I am active in the community and in politics and have served on 33 non-profit boards; including two commission appointments by the governors.

My mindset is that the best way for a board to function is without having an agenda thrust down their throats. As a strong personality I could have affected their choices. I chose to be at "arm's length" for the purity of the goal.

1.a. Who is Carole? a volunteer and a person who decided to take her passion for this topic and turn it into something positive for future generations. I am not a paid agent. I do not seek nor would not accept employee status or remuneration.

As written today this website does not offer the transparency you request. I would prefer that openness but was cautioned by our webmaster not to provide it as it could open me up to crank calls, fraudulent scams and an email address that was stuffed with junk mail (isn't that an irony given the storm that ensued). I followed the webmaster's advice as he is the expert.
I will now change that by listing our home telephone number: 541-928-5011 and my email address: cj@proaxis.com. I will also talk with each of the board members to see if they will agree to being listed.

2. Our Board of Directors:
David G. Brown, co-owner of Disaster Restorations in Albany, Oregon. In business 32 years. Expert on mold and fungus remediation, HAZMAT and aquatic biodiversity/farms.
Janice Brown, co-owner of Disaster Restorations. In business approx. 28 years. Degree in Forestry, certificate in specialty teaching for children, mother of three and active in the community. Most recently president of Albany Kiwanis.
Larry Johnson, 35 years with Pacific Power & Light. Retired at 55 as the Regional Operations Director (manager of 121 staff and 1/3 of the state of Oregon), charged with keeping the lights on.
Two years prior to retirement he entered Oregon Massage School. Upon graduation he opened Therapeutic Touch Massage in Albany, Oregon. Go figure, IBEW to touchy-feely.
Larry has served on many non-profit boards. Most recently two terms as president of Takena Kiwanis. For three years he has been a weekly mentor for the SMART program and is an active fundraiser for children's care.
Cynthia Coleman of Wimberly, Texas. Former television anchor newsperson in Montana. Former Oregon Department of Revenue auditor. Early, early retiree due to need for lung transplant.
Jill Weygandt of Albany, Oregon. Wife, mother, student. Currently enrolled at Willamette University in the law program. Former Treasurer of the Linn County Democrats. Knowledgeable activist.
Dr. Patrick Hart of Jefferson, Oregon. Graduated Parker College. Practiced eight years in Italy. Also had office in Hawaii, Wisconsin and Oregon. Amazing knowledge on nearly everything--a Renaissance Man. Extreme catalyst in Jefferson for community gatherings on earth changes, 9/11, movie and popcorn at city hall, ballroom dancing lessons, etc.

3. Storage. We take down-to-earth baby steps. When additional freezer space is required a freezer will be putchased. Currently there is one freezer available.

3.a. At this point in time all expenses have been paid for by Carole out of her retirement income. Those payments are a donation with one string attached (more on that later).

4. Banking. You are absolutely right. Non-profits have their own checking account and banking account. We have one established with Willamette Community Bank in Albany, Oregon. Janice Brown is the Treasurer.

5. "Never do business with an unknown organization that does not list a valid number on the website." I agree. Now you have my number: 541-928-5011.

6. You are right in terms of no track record. Our webpage went up in June. The laws governing a 501(C)(3) are very specific as to responsibilities and penalties. The board and I have experience with non-profits--I simply don't have the bankroll to provide all the "bells and whistles." I do have the professional network to create the appropriate storage for the vaults, and the books and seeds will not be stored in the same tower.

7. "The single phone number tracks to a massage" business. Explained in Board of Directors, Larry Johnson, second para.

As to "the real charity could certainly afford the few dollars a month for a second, separate phone line..." Larry and I live on 18 acres in Albany, Oregon. I don't understand the technical side of telephone installation, however I can relate that the telephone company will not install an additional line unless they can ditch-witch a 150' ditch from the street to the box on our house. Said ditch would also travel through our blacktopped driveway and 10' wide, poured concrete walkways. All of this work would be at my expense.

As my income is limited--putting in another telephone would be too expense for me to bear. My husband did obtain and sign a contract for a cell phone. He pays the $50 a month cost on the two year contract. I have never received a call on that phone. I personally dislike cell phones and am still a bit leery as to RF and a person's head. I gave the phone back to Larry and he recently switched the cell resonator in it.

Lastly: 3.a. "...a donation with one string attached (more on that later)." The books currently listed on the BookandSeedVault are the personal property of Carole Johnson. A contract has been signed by the Board of Directors acknowledging that these books have not yet been donated to the BookandSeedVault. I have promised to donate all the books once an equal amount has been donated as to their value. With 2200 books named I value this collection at $40 to $50,000. When and if others decide that this is an important project/the value marker has been met and the book values ascertained, then I will release them.
To release them now in a grandiose gesture would put my lifelong library in jeopardy of being taken over by
another non-profit should the BookandSeedVault not materialize. That’s the law of 501(C)(3). If I’m the only one interested in this topic then I’d prefer to keep my books and build my own vault.

[flowerfarm]

Vault siting proposed is based on plate tectonics, geology, seismic safety, flood, soil types, uplift or sink and the well read books of geologist John MacPhee. I recommend MacPhee and also Fred Pearce's books: "With Speed and Violence (seminal book)" and when the "Rivers Run Dry."

Into this mix has also entered the maps of Edgar Cayce, Michael Scallion, Ashton Pietre and the Deyo's. AmerIndian religious beliefs as well as a catalogue of similar views shared around the world.

Sites for the vaults are: LaFayette, Indiana; Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, and the Four Corners area of America's SW.

The vaults will be underground. Honeycomb configuration of hexagonal tubes. Roof to be dome-shape. Construction to be a four-foot thick, hardened-concrete mix with cage rebar. Locale to be farming/rural/sparse population area.

Seed vault geared for three longevities: 1 to 10 years, 10 to 30 years and 30 years to a 1000. Each will take a different approach of storage material and temperature. Applications for achieving these objectives were greatly served by information from the U.S. Agricultural Research Service plant physiologist Christina T. Walters, Ph.D. in Ft. Collins, CO.
Plants in storage for 1 to 10 years will periodically be seeded to ground to refresh potency and enlarge the stores. Some seeds, such as sweet peas remain at highest viability for three years. Each seed type will be database entered for categorized needs.
Books will be sheltered in another storage tower separate from the seeds.
My intention is not to stop at just books and seeds. I am already amassing tools and equipment I think would be required to restart our regions.

Now, let me hear your ideas.

[flowerfarm]

I've been at OHSU, The Epilepsy Center. Recovery was difficult. My apologies for not responding to your email at the BookandSeedVault. Please do contact me at cj@proaxis.com

I would be glad to answer your questions. cj

[cdntomato]

Carole, first and foremost, thank you for introducing yourself and providing some of the critical background that is of interest to me and others. You have made clear exactly what your motives and commitment are. They are tremendous, it seems. And your welcoming of positive/negative feedback is refreshing. I salute you.

At some other time I will respond directly and in more detail. For now I will return the public favour by outlining my background and why I asked the simple question in the first place. Heads up, Tom.

I have several degrees in Classical Archaeology and Paleoethnobotany. I trained as a book and paper conservator, ending up as head of preservation at the Law Society of Upper Canada then as head of Preservation and Technical Services at the National Library of Canada (now merged with National Archives of Canada). If you understand the dynamics of modern libraries then you will understand that preservation of library material now includes all media, including machine readable formats. In the latter position I increasingly dealt with institutional as well as national issues involving disasters. I was asked to give disaster and preservation policy workshops at both the Smithsonian and the Library of Congress in addition to institutions and organizations across Canada. After leaving NL, I became the first person to certify as a Continuity Planner of Cultural Property. A consultancy in Continuity Planning took me all over the northern USA until 9-11 closed borders. If you are not familiar with the term, then please know that Continuity Planning has replaced Contingency Planning and frequently now Disaster/Emergency Planning in any business context and many government contexts, where loss of funding and loss of key personnel can be as great a 'disaster' to the affected organisation as a fire or flood. For these reasons, this broad term will likely not have a place amongst medical facilities or first responders. Please note that I now work as a researcher in the former.

While studying in Toronto, I worked for the Toronto Historical Board at an historic house with intact/restored gardens over 5 acres. I became very aware of issues in ag/hort preservation. I worked peripherially with my partner at the time who was an historical landscape architect. A long chain of events has led me to establishing a seeds trust specializing in Canada-bred and Canadian heritage materials. I, of course, bring my 'preservation head' as well as my formal research training into this project.

May I correctly assume that if you have a storage site in Saskatchewan, that you are in contact with Jim Ternier?

Thank you,
Jennifer

[cdntomato]

Just an addendum to say that your reference to Edgar Cayce put everything in perspective for me, Carole. Survivalists rather than pure preservationists. I just got all excited when I thought I had found someone else with parallel passions. :>)

Cheers,
Jennifer

[Soilsniffer]

Originally Posted by flowerfarm

My apologies for not responding to your email at the BookandSeedVault. Please do contact me at...

I inquired about the secrecy/anonymity to the website. That matter was addressed in your last few messages (webmaster advice, and you don't like cell phones), so no need for further explanation.

A gargantuan task you have in front of you, for sure.

J

[flowerfarm]

You did find someone with parallel passions. I personally am not a survivalist nor a preservationist. It matters not what our belief systems are, what triggers our need to react, nor to plan. The objective is the same. Preserve the supplies, equipment and knowledge of mankind in the event of a catastrophe AND do not depend upon government to be at your front door asking what you need.
That's it in a nutshell. No secret agenda. No glory. No money. Just a concept that ideally would be emulated by each county in the United States. The disconnect is that nothing will happen via government until the crisis is evident. cj

[cdntomato]

Thank you for the clarification about survivalist. That may be interpreted, as you point out, as a belief system. Preservation, however, is a skill set. That's what was puzzling me about the website, I wasn't seeing any skill set(s) with which to undertake this mammoth task. Now I understand that it's not really about preserving books and seeds, but rather more holistic.

And please, wherein lies the Saskatchewan connection? If the border issues/restrictions, especially involving germplasm, remain in place between our countries, then are you duplicating holdings on both sides so as to bypass this? Under whose aegis here is the vault?

Thanks once again.
Jennifer

[cdntomato]

I knew that what you wrote was ringing familiar bells, Carole, but I just wasn't putting my finger on it until a moment ago.

The Cassandra Projects from Y2K. Survivalist, yes, but without religious overtones.

Jennifer

[flowerfarm]

Originally Posted by Soilsniffer

I'm thinking the word 'scam' isn't appropriate for what Carole is attempting to do. I don't get the impression she's trying to rip anyone off.

I see Carole as an entrepreneur with an idea. She's presenting her idea on a website (a very nicely done one at that), and simply seeing if the donations start rolling in. She's in a defensive posture (i.e., she's keeping her book collection unless she gets enough donations from others), so she won't lose anything if her enterprise doesn't come to fruition. If the salary she desires is met, she'll continue with the venture.

Regardless of what the website implies, she's not going to do this gratis. If anyone disagrees with that, no sense reading further.

I'm reminded of a fund that Bill Cosby was once an officer of, that loaned money for certain individuals (read that: white males need not apply) to get a new business off the ground. He discussed (on Phil Donahue's old show, or somesuch) one applicant who requested a loan of $75K: $25K for rent and supplies, and $50K for the applicant's first year salary. Cosby used that example to state that's not how things are done ... but it appears to me that's what Carole's attempting to do. She surely hopes her project will take off ... but she's not going to lose anything if the venture doesn't work.

Maybe the not-for-profit route is a smart way to eke out a good living. I'll use SSE as an example. Kent made a hefty salary, had hundreds of acres of land that he didn't pay for that was essentially his, to do as he pleased (e.g., cattle!), as long as he didn't ruffle any feathers. He did ruffle, but that's another story. He sought (and received, big time) million$ in donations to acquire land, raised seed packet prices to acquire more (and once THAT land was purchased, kept the packet price the same, the extra money now to be used for 'other projects', whatever on earth that means), and -- here's the kicker -- free labor! Thousands of volunteers working toward the SSE mission.

SSE looks to me as a perfectly run business, and because of its mission gets to be classified as not-for-profit, which puts a different connotation in one's mind. I know many folks think Kent was just another volunteer, toiling for the good of the land and humanity as a whole. His work was certainly noble, but dude was compensated out the yin-yang for his efforts. I see *that* as Carole's motivation for her startup. If it makes her wallet fat, great. If not, she'll just stay retired.

Oh -- the phone # ringing to a massage parlor?? Amazing. Too funny. That's another example of her defensive position, not even springing for a dedicated cell phone to at least collect voicemail messages. She's not going to lose money with this no matter what. Her risk = her investment = 0. A REAL bad way to start a business, as well as a bad impression.

Jay

Thank you for your kind words. One part of your construction is incorrect. I do not seek; do not want; will not accept any salary. It would be immodest for me to say, "I don't need it.", however my husband and I have an adequate retirement income and I don't want to go back to work. I will work to get this project up off the ground but that's it. Mr. Wagner was correct when he said that I have a modest income--but "we" have enough. cj

[flowerfarm]

Originally Posted by cdntomato

Thank you for the clarification about survivalist. That may be interpreted, as you point out, as a belief system. Preservation, however, is a skill set. That's what was puzzling me about the website, I wasn't seeing any skill set(s) with which to undertake this mammoth task. Now I understand that it's not really about preserving books and seeds, but rather more holistic.

And please, wherein lies the Saskatchewan connection? If the border issues/restrictions, especially involving germplasm, remain in place between our countries, then are you duplicating holdings on both sides so as to bypass this? Under whose aegis here is the vault?

Thanks once again.
Jennifer

Baby steps Jennifer. It's in the planning stages. The three sites mentioned were chosen do to geologic history: bedrock composition, soil types, hydrology, uplift, sinking, etc. When it comes time to expand to Saskatchewan a sister organization will file papers for recognition in Canada. Germplasm, NO. I'm not trained in that field. Seeds, having owned a nursery and seed-raising 85% of my stock--that I know. I'll stick with what I know. It's safer.

[flowerfarm]

Originally Posted by cdntomato

I knew that what you wrote was ringing familiar bells, Carole, but I just wasn't putting my finger on it until a moment ago.

The Cassandra Projects from Y2K. Survivalist, yes, but without religious overtones.

Jennifer

Still not there. Survivalist for humanity. No survivalist for self. I'm a senior citizen--how much help could I offer in 10 years or more? I'd might be a liability or I might be a wise crone. cj

[Soilsniffer]

An FYI:

The website (www.bookandseedvault.org) is gone.

J