Currants as pollen donors?

Boutique Tomatoes · August 22, 2012

I think after butchering a lot of tomato flowers this year I've got the basics down, but one of my intended crosses continues to elude me.

I wanted to cross Helsing ★★★★★★★★ Blues, a very dark blue cherry tomato from Tom Wagner with Hawaiian Red Currant, a very small sweet currant type. The currant flowers are too small for me to work with as female parents at my skill level, so I've been trying with HJB as the female.

Strangely enough, I can never seem to get any pollen off of the Hawaiian Red Currants! I've tried at various temperatures, different times of the day, different stages of flower maturity, nothing. I just got in from trying again and finally resorted to putting anther cones from the currant flowers over the pistels of the emasculated HJB. I figure I'll replace the cones every day for the next few days and see if these take.

I'm curious if anyone has seen anything like this before. It seemed like a neat idea, trying to come up with a small sweet berry sized blue tomato, but this is starting to frustrate the hell out of me and I'm running out of growing season. Is the anther cone trick likely to work?

samyaza · August 22, 2012

Hello.

Yes, currants are very good donors, they make plenty of pollen !

I don't know how yours are but mine are impossible to contain, extremely vigorous, with suckers on suckers on suckers on suckers... and the whole field covered with very tiny tomatoes as early as September. You splash in tomatoes while trying to uproot them !

I made a cross OSU P20 x S. pimpinellifolium 'Red currant' last year, and planted the F1 this year... they're very like the male parent, same shape of leaf, but larger, maybe even larger than cultivated tomato leaves. They have hair like cultivated tomato ( currant is glabrous ), the sap has an after-smell of currant sap, the fruits are the size of a cherry tomato, flesh is less rubbery but with that particular, delicious taste of currant. Bunches bear plenty of fruits, as currant, and the plants are even more vigorous. They're at least 13 feet tall, as they climbed up the 7 feet tall wire mesh next to them and the vine that's climbed on that wire mesh, to see how the chickens are doing. They almost reached the soil on the other side !

Of course, they have traces of blue on the shoulders and absolutely no blue stems/leaves, as Aft expresses but not atv. I have selfed flowers and a backcross to OSU P20. I'd like to have the very tiny fruits of currant with full blue : the best way to have a lot of anthocyanins is to have a lot of skin surface, and the smaller the fruit, the more it has skin compared to the flesh, but the more you have to harvest to have a decent amount, too. More fun ( and fight ) to come in 2013 !

cornbreadlouie · August 22, 2012

my friend tried putting an anther cone on a stigma/style of a different plant, but never replaced it. it aborted after a while but he said it swelled up a little bit. so i think it could work if you do it a couple times.

i'm also trying to get a blue crossed with a currant, and if i have any success i'll share seeds if you're interested. i've got one bosque blue x the newly named ted's pink currant cross that looks like it took. i might make a reciprocal cross, but those tiny flowers really are a pain to work with.

Boutique Tomatoes · August 22, 2012

Ok, so it's probably something environmental keeping me from collecting the pollen from the currant parent. Interesting to see that there are a few of us with this particular goal in mind!

My thought is from a culinary surprise effect, for example what looks like a dish garnished with berries is actually garnished with tiny blue tomatoes.

If I do get one to take and get seeds I'm going to try to grow the F1 in my hydro setup under a HPS light this winter so I can start with an F2 population next season. If I do get seeds I'll be happy to share them with a few collaborators, all the more chances to get what I'm after.

August 22, 2012	#1
Boutique Tomatoes Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Northeast Wisconsin, Zone 5a Posts: 1,109	Currants as pollen donors? I think after butchering a lot of tomato flowers this year I've got the basics down, but one of my intended crosses continues to elude me. I wanted to cross Helsing ★★★★★★★★ Blues, a very dark blue cherry tomato from Tom Wagner with Hawaiian Red Currant, a very small sweet currant type. The currant flowers are too small for me to work with as female parents at my skill level, so I've been trying with HJB as the female. Strangely enough, I can never seem to get any pollen off of the Hawaiian Red Currants! I've tried at various temperatures, different times of the day, different stages of flower maturity, nothing. I just got in from trying again and finally resorted to putting anther cones from the currant flowers over the pistels of the emasculated HJB. I figure I'll replace the cones every day for the next few days and see if these take. I'm curious if anyone has seen anything like this before. It seemed like a neat idea, trying to come up with a small sweet berry sized blue tomato, but this is starting to frustrate the hell out of me and I'm running out of growing season. Is the anther cone trick likely to work?

August 22, 2012	#3
cornbreadlouie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: SF bay area... north bay Posts: 242	my friend tried putting an anther cone on a stigma/style of a different plant, but never replaced it. it aborted after a while but he said it swelled up a little bit. so i think it could work if you do it a couple times. i'm also trying to get a blue crossed with a currant, and if i have any success i'll share seeds if you're interested. i've got one bosque blue x the newly named ted's pink currant cross that looks like it took. i might make a reciprocal cross, but those tiny flowers really are a pain to work with. __________________ Do You Like Worms?

August 22, 2012	#2
samyaza Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North-East France Zone 7 Posts: 8	Hello. Yes, currants are very good donors, they make plenty of pollen ! I don't know how yours are but mine are impossible to contain, extremely vigorous, with suckers on suckers on suckers on suckers... and the whole field covered with very tiny tomatoes as early as September. You splash in tomatoes while trying to uproot them ! I made a cross OSU P20 x S. pimpinellifolium 'Red currant' last year, and planted the F1 this year... they're very like the male parent, same shape of leaf, but larger, maybe even larger than cultivated tomato leaves. They have hair like cultivated tomato ( currant is glabrous ), the sap has an after-smell of currant sap, the fruits are the size of a cherry tomato, flesh is less rubbery but with that particular, delicious taste of currant. Bunches bear plenty of fruits, as currant, and the plants are even more vigorous. They're at least 13 feet tall, as they climbed up the 7 feet tall wire mesh next to them and the vine that's climbed on that wire mesh, to see how the chickens are doing. They almost reached the soil on the other side ! Of course, they have traces of blue on the shoulders and absolutely no blue stems/leaves, as Aft expresses but not atv. I have selfed flowers and a backcross to OSU P20. I'd like to have the very tiny fruits of currant with full blue : the best way to have a lot of anthocyanins is to have a lot of skin surface, and the smaller the fruit, the more it has skin compared to the flesh, but the more you have to harvest to have a decent amount, too. More fun ( and fight ) to come in 2013 !