Green Spreader Stickers

mike5953 · April 10, 2012

On a separate thread, Ami recommended using molasses as a spreader sticker for Actinovate.
I had intended to use plain old dish soap as my spreader sticker. But now I'm wondering if that's even a safe option (in regards to the organisms in the Actinovate).
As a rose grower, I've always considered dish soap a low impact and green-ish method to get some of the nasty stuff we combat the plethora of fungus that plagues roses to stick to their leaves.
But for my vegetables, I try to be as organic as possible, and I definitely don't want to render the live organisms in my MycoGrow and Actinovate useless.
So what's the deal... Is molasses the only/best solution on the path I've chosen? Is dish soap acceptable/safe? Are there other spreader stickers that can be used as an alternative?

RayR · April 10, 2012

Whatever you do, don't use anti-bacterial dish soap.

Seventh Generation, Green Works and Murphy's Oil Soap have all been mentioned before here on TV as acceptable natural vegetable based soaps to use as spreader-stickers. You definitely don't want to use "detergents".
Molasses would probably be better since it also provides a food source for the bacteria and it provides some mild nutrient value to the plant.

Heritage · April 10, 2012

Mike,

No answer, but a question. What brand of dish soap, and at what rate for use on roses as a spreader/sticker? Do you use on the blooms or just foliage?

Thanks,
Steve

mike5953 · April 11, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayR

Whatever you do, don't use anti-bacterial dish soap.

Seventh Generation, Green Works and Murphy's Oil Soap have all been mentioned before here on TV as acceptable natural vegetable based soaps to use as spreader-stickers. You definitely don't want to use "detergents".
Molasses would probably be better since it also provides a food source for the bacteria and it provides some mild nutrient value to the plant.

I've always used the old original Dawn dish soap.
It doesn't say anything about being anti-bacterial on the label. It does say that the surfactants are biodegradable, though it doesn't say what exactly they are. It also says that it's phosphate-free.

The one reservation I have about molasses is that I don't want my plants to be more tasty than they already are for the wildlife that raids my garden every night!

Even with all the chicken wire reinforced pickets and deer netting that surounds my garden, the critters that can scale the fencing still get in an dine on the ripening fruits.
It'd be funny if it wasn't such a big problem!

mike5953 · April 11, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritage

Mike,

No answer, but a question. What brand of dish soap, and at what rate for use on roses as a spreader/sticker? Do you use on the blooms or just foliage?

Thanks,
Steve

As I mentioned above, I'm using plain old Dawn.
I don't use much, maybe a couple drops per gallon of fungicide mix.
And I just use it on the foliage. I always try to keep stuff off of the blooms so that I harm the bees as little as possible, and also to avoid spoiling the blooms with a bunch of splotches.
I do spray the blooms when absolutely necessary, like when I'm treating a Thrip infestation. But I do it as little as possible, and later in the evening.

amideutch · April 12, 2012

[QUOTEThe one reservation I have about molasses is that I don't want my plants to be more tasty than they already are for the wildlife that raids my garden every night!

][/QUOTE]

Never had a problem with foliage eaters. But at work got a big Rat

(so the satcomers till me) that prefers beefsteaks to foliage. He may get a couple tomatoes but not enough to worry about. Ami

mike5953 · April 12, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by amideutch

Never had a problem with foliage eaters. But at work got a big Rat

(so the satcomers till me) that prefers beefsteaks to foliage. He may get a couple tomatoes but not enough to worry about. Ami

I'm not 100% sure what exactly is easting my tomatoes every year. But from the looks of the damage, it sits within the plant and creates a large mashed down area. Then it takes several bites out of all the adjacent fruits.
I've always assumed it's a raccoon.

babice · April 13, 2012

When do you foliar feed versus pouring a dilute over the soil...versus letting it soak it up in a bottom feed? p.s. I've been thinking of using the Dr. Bronner's Organic Peppermint Oil soap but I do like the idea of them getting nutrients from something like molasses.

mike5953 · April 14, 2012

Personally, because I live in an area with high humidity, I never foliar feed tomatoes (or roses) because of the risk of fungus. But I do foliar feed just about everything else every two weeks.
Last year I started using Neptune's Harvest fish and kelp blend, and it seemed to work very well.
This year will be my first year using Actinovate. And I plan on using it as a soil drench when I plant out, and then every couple of weeks as a fungicide spray for the rest of the season.

dice · April 19, 2012

You could try this:
http://www.seventhgeneration.com/Dish-Soap

mike5953 · April 21, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by dice

You could try this:
http://www.seventhgeneration.com/Dish-Soap

Dice, that would definitely seem to be a "greener" alternative to plain old dish soap.
However, I wonder about it's compatibility with Actinovate and other "live organism" based products. I seem to recall reading that Actinocate is not compatible with copper based fungicides, and Seventh Generation dish soap lists gluconates as an ingredient, which I would assume could include Copper Gluconate.

RayR · April 21, 2012

No copper there, the gluconates used in a cleaning product would be there to chelate mineral deposits and not contain metals themselves.

Quote from Wikipedia article on gluconates (Gluconic acid)
"Gluconic acid occurs naturally in fruit, honey, kombucha tea, and wine. As a food additive (E574[2]), it is an acidity regulator. It is also used in cleaning products where it dissolves mineral deposits especially in alkaline solution. The gluconate anion chelates Ca2+, Fe2+, Al3+, and other metals."

dice · April 24, 2012

There is also Yucca Extract:
http://www.groworganic.com/therm-x70...ct-gallon.html

I do not know who has it in smaller quantities, or if you can make your
own. Their recommendation is 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of that specific
product.

babice · April 24, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by dice

There is also Yucca Extract...

Do you think the Yucca Extract would attract the animals like molasses does?

RayR · April 25, 2012

You can get B'Cuzz Foliar Boost which is yucca and quillaja extract in smaller quantity. Harvest Moon Hydroponics has it on sale mail order for $10.00.

April 10, 2012	#1
mike5953 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 97	Green Spreader Stickers On a separate thread, Ami recommended using molasses as a spreader sticker for Actinovate. I had intended to use plain old dish soap as my spreader sticker. But now I'm wondering if that's even a safe option (in regards to the organisms in the Actinovate). As a rose grower, I've always considered dish soap a low impact and green-ish method to get some of the nasty stuff we combat the plethora of fungus that plagues roses to stick to their leaves. But for my vegetables, I try to be as organic as possible, and I definitely don't want to render the live organisms in my MycoGrow and Actinovate useless. So what's the deal... Is molasses the only/best solution on the path I've chosen? Is dish soap acceptable/safe? Are there other spreader stickers that can be used as an alternative?

April 12, 2012	#6
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	[QUOTEThe one reservation I have about molasses is that I don't want my plants to be more tasty than they already are for the wildlife that raids my garden every night! ][/QUOTE] Never had a problem with foliage eaters. But at work got a big Rat (so the satcomers till me) that prefers beefsteaks to foliage. He may get a couple tomatoes but not enough to worry about. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

April 13, 2012	#8
babice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Alabama Posts: 643	When do you foliar feed versus pouring a dilute over the soil...versus letting it soak it up in a bottom feed? p.s. I've been thinking of using the Dr. Bronner's Organic Peppermint Oil soap but I do like the idea of them getting nutrients from something like molasses. Last edited by babice; April 24, 2012 at 01:42 PM. Reason: spelling

April 19, 2012	#10
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	You could try this: http://www.seventhgeneration.com/Dish-Soap __________________ -- alias

April 24, 2012	#13
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	There is also Yucca Extract: http://www.groworganic.com/therm-x70...ct-gallon.html I do not know who has it in smaller quantities, or if you can make your own. Their recommendation is 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of that specific product. __________________ -- alias

April 10, 2012	#2
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	Whatever you do, don't use anti-bacterial dish soap. Seventh Generation, Green Works and Murphy's Oil Soap have all been mentioned before here on TV as acceptable natural vegetable based soaps to use as spreader-stickers. You definitely don't want to use "detergents". Molasses would probably be better since it also provides a food source for the bacteria and it provides some mild nutrient value to the plant.

April 10, 2012	#3
Heritage Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,255	Mike, No answer, but a question. What brand of dish soap, and at what rate for use on roses as a spreader/sticker? Do you use on the blooms or just foliage? Thanks, Steve

April 14, 2012	#9
mike5953 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 97	Personally, because I live in an area with high humidity, I never foliar feed tomatoes (or roses) because of the risk of fungus. But I do foliar feed just about everything else every two weeks. Last year I started using Neptune's Harvest fish and kelp blend, and it seemed to work very well. This year will be my first year using Actinovate. And I plan on using it as a soil drench when I plant out, and then every couple of weeks as a fungicide spray for the rest of the season.

April 21, 2012	#12
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	No copper there, the gluconates used in a cleaning product would be there to chelate mineral deposits and not contain metals themselves. Quote from Wikipedia article on gluconates (Gluconic acid) "Gluconic acid occurs naturally in fruit, honey, kombucha tea, and wine. As a food additive (E574[2]), it is an acidity regulator. It is also used in cleaning products where it dissolves mineral deposits especially in alkaline solution. The gluconate anion chelates Ca2+, Fe2+, Al3+, and other metals."

April 25, 2012	#15
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	You can get B'Cuzz Foliar Boost which is yucca and quillaja extract in smaller quantity. Harvest Moon Hydroponics has it on sale mail order for $10.00.