starting seedling without lights - Page 2

Ms. Jitomate · January 11, 2013

tqn626, I like inexpensive. And, I kind of have an idea, but how exactly do you use the hangers? Do you think you can insert a photo of your setup?

I am maxed out on varieties, but if these seedlings survive my first time, you can have a few if you are close by. It's so sad, but I only have room to plant 16 varieties. I'm itching to transplant but my containers have not arrived and they are still in the cotyledon stage, besides with this freaky cold weather, I think they are still safe indoors. My last frost date is suppose to be Feb 21st, but who knows what changes are occurring in the weather this year.

Do you have any idea where I can get a bulk starter mix in our area without ordering online?

tqn626 · January 11, 2013

I was driving by the post office and thought up of a better setup.

You can get these post boxes for free from any post office, staples, office max, office depot, just ask for the free post office boxes.

You can line the box with alumnium foil, adjust the box height by just folding the flaps, or make a bigger one by cutting up the box and taping them together which i'm going to do. That's a shoe box cover, i just cut a x into it and shove the light bulb through it then connected the adapter from the top.

For starting mix you can get Light warrior from a hydroponic store but that like 15 dollars for 1 cubic feet. Not sure which part of pasadena you live in, but http://www.pasadenahydroponics.com/ has some decent stuff, I get my bat guano (7-8 dollars a bag) and worm casting here. I also know there 2 hydroponic shops near PCC. The one near PCC sells the Vermiblend soil amendment which i use to brew compost tea with.

I know there Whittier Fertilizer company in whittier that sells bulk compost, starter mix, etc. I bought some stuff from there, not that great but extremely cheap, I was really turned off by the service they gave me, i'm a young guy and they just shoved me off.

I'm using my own mixture at the moment to start seeds, still no seeds in the mail. It comprises of Empire Builder soil 2cu ft ($20), Coco Coir 2cu ft+ ($11), Vermiculite 2cu ft ($20). I really only got that expensive mixture because i'm trying to grow giant tomato plants in a self watering container.

Have you ever gone to the San Gabriel Nursery? They sell some great stuff there in the spring, vegetable wise. The soil there is decent;y price, don't buy the worm castings, they leave it in the sun.

P.S. FREEZING

Ms. Jitomate · January 12, 2013

tqn626, I love your cardboard box setup, but I would line it with white paper instead of foil because it would become a solar oven with aluminum. I now remember doing one of these in my Girl Scout days.

I did contact San Gabriel Nursery to inquire if they had the starter soils mentioned in this website in bulk. He suggested LGM potting soil or to make my own using a UC mix recipe. Another friend mentioned Orange County Farm supply. So I called, and they actually have the Pro Mix BX in bulk for about $41, but it means a trip to Anaheim. This place looks like it would be a fun store to check out. I also don't like Whittier Fertilizer because they use biosolids in their products and I've heard so many complaints about them. I have visited one hydroponic store, kind of scary, but their products were absolutely magnificent and pricey but probably worth it because some of those mixtures had natural products I could never get a hold of. I do like your idea of using their Vermiblend for compost tea. I can never make enough compost.

Keep those suggestions coming; I'm learning a lot!

tqn626 · January 12, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms. Jitomate

tqn626, I love your cardboard box setup, but I would line it with white paper instead of foil because it would become a solar oven with aluminum.

That would only happen with a non-fluorescent bulb, since a fluorescent bulb has little to no heat. Just enough heat to raise the temperature a little bit in box, and the aluminum (shiny side) would reflect light onto the plants.

Hydroponics stores are a great place to learn about soil building, especially the workers in the Orange county area, they all must have as much knowledge as a PHD since they grow Mary Jane.

Usually hydroponic store carries things that you can't find in nurseries like mycorrhiza (I recommend Extreme Gardening Mykos), Coco Coir, Fox farm Soils, Net cups, Humic/fulvic acids, Sunleaves Bat Guanos, and several other things.

Also, have you ever used Azomite, it's a rock dust that has a wide variety of trace minerals. It cost about 25 dollars for a 44lb bag, only place I found that sold it is at Crop production services (3321 W Castor St Santa Ana, CA 92704) and http://www.ocfarmsupply.com/ . Make sure you call ahead, it's a long drive.

I highly recommend you check out San Gabriel nursery, it's the biggest nursery in this area. Also, near here is a hydroponics store I frequent to buy coco coir ($11), worm castings ($16), and potting soils ($14-20). Actually, this store sells Sunshine mix #4 for 35 dollars. Call ahead to see if they have it in stock. That's the soil type you wanted, i think?

http://www.yelp.com/biz/u-s-garden-h...ly-san-gabriel

San Gabriel nursery is across the street kinda from the hydroponics store. Hit two birds with one stone.

Ms. Jitomate · January 15, 2013

First transplant question: Do I wait for the true leave to completely come out or start to come out? The Nctomatoman video of March 17 shows the seedlings as if they have only the cotyledons. Other sources of information state you should make the transplant when true leave come out.

Redbaron · January 15, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms. Jitomate

First transplant question: Do I wait for the true leave to completely come out or start to come out? The Nctomatoman video of March 17 shows the seedlings as if they have only the cotyledons. Other sources of information state you should make the transplant when true leave come out.

It is a judgment call. I like to wait till the second set of true leaves start.

b54red · January 15, 2013

I have been starting my seed for over 30 years without lights but we have good sunshine most of the time. When we get a lot of rainy weather or cloudy days then the plants can become very leggy but they usually recover. I now have a very small greenhouse attached which gives me more light but it is way too small for all the seed starting I do in the spring so many have to start on the covered porch. I like to get mine outside as soon as possible after they sprout if the weather permits. This toughens them and keeps them a bit stouter.

I always wait for true leaves to develop before transplanting because they are so much easier to handle. I frequently wait til my tomatoes are 4 inches tall and bury them deeper when transplanting in order to get a bigger root system.

awsumth · January 28, 2013

Where I am there are never any freezes and I'm enjoying beautiful 78°F weather right now. I started my seeds outside in October with seed starting mix and pots, and I found it was perfect. I kept them in the a shaded spot that receives some morning sun and put them in a tray with 1/2" water and gradually move them into more sun as they develop more leaves.

Ms. Jitomate · January 29, 2013

I never set up lights. I just kept turning them around and quickly introduced them to real sunlight, shade first, dappled sunlight next, than full sunlight. When it rained they were kept indoors, I turned on some desk lights but never as close as 2".

I transplanted two days ago and now they went back outside again. The atmosphere's temperature in direct sunlight is 70 F. In the shade it's 62 F. There's a slight breeze but I think the transplants sit too low to actual move around by the breeze. Too bad the mix shrunk down when I watered. Only one set of tomatoes seems stressed with curled up leaves, Zapotec.

Here's my question, when I transplanted and watered, some of the leaves, true or cotyledons, got covered up with the mix, should I uncover them? I can see that on some transplants one of the cotyledons are completely buried, others are partial buried in the mix. I could take a toothpick and try to lift them out of the mix but I don't want to break them off.

Redbaron · January 29, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms. Jitomate

I never set up lights. I just kept turning them around and quickly introduced them to real sunlight, shade first, dappled sunlight next, than full sunlight. When it rained they were kept indoors, I turned on some desk lights but never as close as 2".

I transplanted two days ago and now they went back outside again. The atmosphere's temperature in direct sunlight is 70 F. In the shade it's 62 F. There's a slight breeze but I think the transplants sit too low to actual move around by the breeze. Too bad the mix shrunk down when I watered. Only one set of tomatoes seems stressed with curled up leaves, Zapotec.

Here's my question, when I transplanted and watered, some of the leaves, true or cotyledons, got covered up with the mix, should I uncover them? I can see that on some transplants one of the cotyledons are completely buried, others are partial buried in the mix. I could take a toothpick and try to lift them out of the mix but I don't want to break them off.

Just leave em. They are fine.

January 11, 2013	#17
tqn626 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Gabriel, CA Posts: 145	I was driving by the post office and thought up of a better setup. You can get these post boxes for free from any post office, staples, office max, office depot, just ask for the free post office boxes. You can line the box with alumnium foil, adjust the box height by just folding the flaps, or make a bigger one by cutting up the box and taping them together which i'm going to do. That's a shoe box cover, i just cut a x into it and shove the light bulb through it then connected the adapter from the top. For starting mix you can get Light warrior from a hydroponic store but that like 15 dollars for 1 cubic feet. Not sure which part of pasadena you live in, but http://www.pasadenahydroponics.com/ has some decent stuff, I get my bat guano (7-8 dollars a bag) and worm casting here. I also know there 2 hydroponic shops near PCC. The one near PCC sells the Vermiblend soil amendment which i use to brew compost tea with. I know there Whittier Fertilizer company in whittier that sells bulk compost, starter mix, etc. I bought some stuff from there, not that great but extremely cheap, I was really turned off by the service they gave me, i'm a young guy and they just shoved me off. I'm using my own mixture at the moment to start seeds, still no seeds in the mail. It comprises of Empire Builder soil 2cu ft ($20), Coco Coir 2cu ft+ ($11), Vermiculite 2cu ft ($20). I really only got that expensive mixture because i'm trying to grow giant tomato plants in a self watering container. Have you ever gone to the San Gabriel Nursery? They sell some great stuff there in the spring, vegetable wise. The soil there is decent;y price, don't buy the worm castings, they leave it in the sun. P.S. FREEZING Last edited by tqn626; January 11, 2013 at 07:12 PM.

January 11, 2013	#16
Ms. Jitomate Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: San Gabriel Valley, CA Posts: 99	tqn626, I like inexpensive. And, I kind of have an idea, but how exactly do you use the hangers? Do you think you can insert a photo of your setup? I am maxed out on varieties, but if these seedlings survive my first time, you can have a few if you are close by. It's so sad, but I only have room to plant 16 varieties. I'm itching to transplant but my containers have not arrived and they are still in the cotyledon stage, besides with this freaky cold weather, I think they are still safe indoors. My last frost date is suppose to be Feb 21st, but who knows what changes are occurring in the weather this year. Do you have any idea where I can get a bulk starter mix in our area without ordering online?

January 12, 2013	#18
Ms. Jitomate Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: San Gabriel Valley, CA Posts: 99	tqn626, I love your cardboard box setup, but I would line it with white paper instead of foil because it would become a solar oven with aluminum. I now remember doing one of these in my Girl Scout days. I did contact San Gabriel Nursery to inquire if they had the starter soils mentioned in this website in bulk. He suggested LGM potting soil or to make my own using a UC mix recipe. Another friend mentioned Orange County Farm supply. So I called, and they actually have the Pro Mix BX in bulk for about $41, but it means a trip to Anaheim. This place looks like it would be a fun store to check out. I also don't like Whittier Fertilizer because they use biosolids in their products and I've heard so many complaints about them. I have visited one hydroponic store, kind of scary, but their products were absolutely magnificent and pricey but probably worth it because some of those mixtures had natural products I could never get a hold of. I do like your idea of using their Vermiblend for compost tea. I can never make enough compost. Keep those suggestions coming; I'm learning a lot!

January 15, 2013	#20
Ms. Jitomate Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: San Gabriel Valley, CA Posts: 99	First transplant question: Do I wait for the true leave to completely come out or start to come out? The Nctomatoman video of March 17 shows the seedlings as if they have only the cotyledons. Other sources of information state you should make the transplant when true leave come out.

January 15, 2013	#22
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I have been starting my seed for over 30 years without lights but we have good sunshine most of the time. When we get a lot of rainy weather or cloudy days then the plants can become very leggy but they usually recover. I now have a very small greenhouse attached which gives me more light but it is way too small for all the seed starting I do in the spring so many have to start on the covered porch. I like to get mine outside as soon as possible after they sprout if the weather permits. This toughens them and keeps them a bit stouter. I always wait for true leaves to develop before transplanting because they are so much easier to handle. I frequently wait til my tomatoes are 4 inches tall and bury them deeper when transplanting in order to get a bigger root system.

January 28, 2013	#23
awsumth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: South Florida Posts: 40	Where I am there are never any freezes and I'm enjoying beautiful 78°F weather right now. I started my seeds outside in October with seed starting mix and pots, and I found it was perfect. I kept them in the a shaded spot that receives some morning sun and put them in a tray with 1/2" water and gradually move them into more sun as they develop more leaves.

January 29, 2013	#24
Ms. Jitomate Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: San Gabriel Valley, CA Posts: 99	I never set up lights. I just kept turning them around and quickly introduced them to real sunlight, shade first, dappled sunlight next, than full sunlight. When it rained they were kept indoors, I turned on some desk lights but never as close as 2". I transplanted two days ago and now they went back outside again. The atmosphere's temperature in direct sunlight is 70 F. In the shade it's 62 F. There's a slight breeze but I think the transplants sit too low to actual move around by the breeze. Too bad the mix shrunk down when I watered. Only one set of tomatoes seems stressed with curled up leaves, Zapotec. Here's my question, when I transplanted and watered, some of the leaves, true or cotyledons, got covered up with the mix, should I uncover them? I can see that on some transplants one of the cotyledons are completely buried, others are partial buried in the mix. I could take a toothpick and try to lift them out of the mix but I don't want to break them off.